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dxiao t1_iyblkxb wrote

Reply to comment by ThreadbareHalo in Forced Uyghur labor is being used in China's solar panel supply chain, researchers say by chrisdh79

I agree, all atrocities should be called out and actions taken against, but that is a very ideological view point and not realistic. Countries and their political bodies have interests, if the calling out and action would not further those interests, then these political bodies have no desire to do so. That is unfortunately how most of the world works.

China did open up and allow investigators in and have done so recently again. Michelle Bachelet, former head of the UN visited and wrote a lengthy report dated as recent as august 31st 2022. Guess what, you cant find one instance where the word genocide is used and unlike most people, I actually read all 48 pages and it’s references, which a lot were anecdotal. Like a Uyghur woman said this or a Uyghur man said that. There is certainly some human rights impacted, like to be able to freely mobilize or practice religion in an enclosed private space en masse, these are just some examples but not all. This isn’t a genocide, concentration camps are not the same as re-education camps. Do re education camps suck and probably push or breaks the boundaries of human rights, most likely. But China isn’t gassing up and killing millions of Muslims. Anyways, I digress, my point is that countries do and should care for their self interest, it’s where those interest lie that matters. It’s how we advance and further ourselves, as a country, that matters.

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ThreadbareHalo t1_iybmh95 wrote

It concerns me that we’re discussing that unless the word “genocide” is used that it’s not a big deal. The words “crimes against humanity” were used. That’s still a big deal.

We are just two random people on a social media network… why on earth are we discussing “political bodies having interests”? We’re not part of the government. Why the hell would we be discussing this topic like we are?!

It’s insane that unless people are literally being gassed to death that that doesn’t warrant discussion and a coordinated effort to stop it. You’re supposed to, as a human being, stop that before it gets anywhere close to that.

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dxiao t1_iybnf9r wrote

Even if people were being gassed to death, starving to death by the hundreds of thousands, massacred due to religion, those with power wouldn’t act unless it aligned with their political entity and agenda.

Im curious how you think we as average citizens are suppose to stop it, things occurring outside of our reach. Im not saying we shouldn’t, im asking how.

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ThreadbareHalo t1_iybo5r9 wrote

I can tell you the first thing we can do as average citizens which is to not jump to saying things like “we need more proof” on social media when we’re taking it as given that atrocities and crimes against humanity are happening. Because that appears to be done in an attempt to minimize what we’re agreeing is a crime against humanity which seems a super weird thing for a person to do.

Asking anyone to figure out how to solve governmentally driven atrocities before we can begin to discuss those atrocities plainly and without hypocritical “well there are other atrocities in the world too” stuff seems a request that ONLY benefits the people doing the atrocity.

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dxiao t1_iyboiap wrote

That’s fair but facts also matter, that’s where proof comes in.

But what happens after, regardless of proof? Taking the Yemen famine for example, where tens of millions of people are starving to death.

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ThreadbareHalo t1_iybrvxv wrote

Yes, that IS where proof comes in. Which is why it’s beyond bizarre that china is not openly and freely letting people tour the sites whenever they want without chaperones. Having chaperones that direct the investigation there fundamentally makes this a problem. China could pull a masterful turn on the west by opening up those locations completely and saying “here is proof there is no validity to your claims, we aren’t scared”.

But they aren’t.

They’re doing the stupid guilty looking thing that’s making everyone question using them as a supplier MORE than they were before. They’re demanding terms. It’s like someone being accused of stealing stuff by their neighbor and when people in the neighborhood ask to search their house they say “ok but I have to be with you the whole time, if you ask questions I don’t like then I’ll threaten you with retaliation and I get to choose what rooms you look in. And by the way if you talk about this it’s because you actually want my job”. You CAN do that, but it’s not out of bounds to say that to everyone else that makes you look super guilty of something. You can’t have both doing stuff that makes you look super guilty AND demand that people can’t talk about how you look super guilty. That’s ridiculous and deserves to be ridiculed. If china doesn’t want to be ridiculed and have this constant thing over their heads it’s entirely within Chinas power to fix that by just doing anything other than the ridiculous saber rattling and social media influencing that they’ve been focusing on instead of… yknow… solving the crime against humanity in their backyard.

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dxiao t1_iybtwuj wrote

What you are saying is from the perspective of a westerner, China and it’s people does not care to prove anything to the world. That’s where you are mistaken, to think they feel like they have a need to prove something to the west. They are not scared, they are just not going to play this game and just continue to grow. China is going to do what is best for China. You say they are being ridiculed but that’s only because of the media you are exposed to. Muslim countries are coming to chinas defense on this topic. Asia continues to partner and grow economically with China. Only we in the west and our Allies think they are being ridiculed. China’s GDP continues to grow year over year, inflation is ranked the lowest in the world, they simply don’t care what we have to say.

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ThreadbareHalo t1_iybvc6e wrote

Respectfully they very much do want to prove something to the world or else they wouldn’t have farms posting prepared refutations on social media, refusing to let people have unsupervised interviews with Uyghurs inside the country and threatening other countries with retaliation if they talk about it. If they’re trying to prove they don’t care and are just going to do what’s best for them they’re doing a phenomenally poor job of showing it. All of their actions scream a need for approval. You don’t need to do any of that shit when you’re strong and confident in yourself. You do that when you’re self conscious about how people view you.

All these ridiculously transparent karma manipulations and comments that very obviously aren’t trying to come to an objective and consistent argument, but just are making whatever argument seems to win even if it acknowledges crimes against humanity… I don’t know why people would do that. It seems such an admission of weakness and cringy wanting people to view them positively to everyone. Please view us as the picked on country, don’t worry about the crimes against humanity… yeesh I honestly don’t get why the people doing it don’t recognize that. I can’t imagine what bs they’re told that makes it seem worthwhile and not embarrassing.

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Lollmfaowhatever t1_iyd2yol wrote

lmfao, I agree with the other guy, it's literally a waste of time to talk to you. Instead of engaging and discussing, you just hide behind your rEsPecTfulY and try to get the other person to agree with your jargon and throw a hissy fit when they don't.

Bro the see see pee is 100% here to downvote you because your just that important. lmfao

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