Submitted by buncley t3_ztvuph in technology
jashsayani t1_j1g3pjk wrote
The main problem here is that H1B is a Temporary visa, with option to get a Green Card down the line (decades later). Most of these workers assume that H1B (temporary visa) = being able to live in the US forever. So they get mortgages & buy homes on temporary visas and then feel entitled to be given Green Cards. I think the US needs to clearly separate Temporary Visas & Green Cards, and make it clear that H1B means they have to go back to their own country eventually. But yeah, the layoffs suck. At the same time, some of the foreign workers feeling they are entitled to Green Cards (and demanding them) is ridiculous.
chip_0 t1_j1g9ve8 wrote
Many of these workers are approved for their green cards but stuck in eternal queues. These workers were promised permanent residency at some point (with no certainty when) and base their lives around the USA. Their lives become entrenched here after a certain time, and it is no surprise that they can not (and do not) leave (see recent news about this).
The problem is in the system and not these people.
jashsayani t1_j1gb8y5 wrote
They are not promised anything. That is not how the system works. I-140 is Application for Immigrant Worker. You have just shown intent to immigrate. US is not "promising" you a Green Card. When you file I-485, you are actually applying for one. Which can be decades away. Again, US immigration is built on diversity, its not merit-based. People say its a broken system. Is its not broken. It is designed for diversity and works well as per its design.
It is only broken if you assume its merit-based. But its a diversity based system. People need to understand that.
nazbot t1_j1gmf0n wrote
It’s broken in quite a few ways.
The H1-B is basically the main visa that lets you also apply to be a permanent resident. It’s not a temporary visa - it’s a dual intent. It’s both temporary AND allows for immigration. Compared to a TN, for example, which is only temporary.
The immigration process is broken in that the application times for the green card are based on what country you were born in. So if you are from Canada it take about 1-2 for them to process your green card application. If you are from India or China it’s 10-15 years. It doesn’t even matter If you are a Canadian citizen … it’s just where you were born.
That leads to the situations where Indian workers end up stuck at bad jobs working crazy hours because of you are 7 years into your application process you have a LOT to lose. If you lose your job and don’t find another one in 60 days you basically start the clock all over again.
It shouldn’t take that long to process the applications and the consequences shouldn’t be so dire if you are let go and can’t find something else quickly.
Bad_Adam1917 t1_j1gez5n wrote
“… it’s a diversity based system. People need to understand that.”
Lol says Jash Sayani, who is either from India himself or his parents are from there, and who likely held the very same H1B at some point.
Sure buddy
RookieRider t1_j1gwlif wrote
Your reply makes no sense. He is right in saying the green card system is loosely diversity based. That’s why they have per-country limits especially in employment-based GCs. Your response neither provides evidence otherwise, nor is relevant to his point. Just a spiteful comment.
imissze90s t1_j1gkga2 wrote
Do you want a disproportionate number of immigrants coming from a particular country?
PLATYPUS_DIARRHEA t1_j1gp8hc wrote
That's the thing, they're already in the US. They've been here for years if not decades. They just don't have a green card or voting rights. You either also implement a per country cap on H-1B or remove it from green card altogether. This business of having it on the green cards (which gives immigrants their rights and bargaining power) but not on H-1B disproportionately tilts power in favor the companies.
Tech companies get to have their cake and eat it too under the current system. In other words, business as usual...
RookieRider t1_j1gwzuu wrote
Dunno why you are downvoted, most of what you said is spot on. Most of US immigration is diversity-based. Even employment-based GCs have an element of diversity in the form of per-country limits. Only investor GCs, and maybe Einstein visas are probably not diversity based. Lot of ignorant comments in the replies that still miss the point that H1B is a temporary permit. So if people choose to have kids here and buy houses, that’s their choice that they made fully aware of the chance of having to leave the country. Playing the victim card after making your choice with all the info available is just silly.
dofphoto t1_j1gif6r wrote
Genuine q: while waiting for gc with filled 485, you can get ead and advanced parole, right? While not super solid footing, you're still in us and working.
PLATYPUS_DIARRHEA t1_j1goqdl wrote
That's only once you file your I-485 and are waiting for a decision on that. It takes Indians and Chinese decades between an approved I-140 and being able to file a I-485. There's no EAD in that interval. You are beholden to your job and employer.
dofphoto t1_j1i0acu wrote
Oh I didn't know that part. Thanks for clarifying.
the_mullet_fondler t1_j1gk5nb wrote
Man this thread has made it clear redditors know absolutely nothing about US immigration
imdb_shenanigans t1_j1gajjg wrote
Your view is quite narrow in its scope. US has dual intent immigration doctrine which allows certain categories of visas ( H1B, O, K1 fiance visa) to apply for permanent residence. US does not grant PR cards before entry to the country typically as all other western nations do, so you would have to apply it once you land within it's boundaries.
Indians form the majority of H1Bs because we are immigrating in large numbers and we have the requisite skills but the green cards are limited by country. So if an H1-B is from France, he will at least have to land here and then apply for a green card? Which means H1-B has to have dual intent? See the logic? There are plenty of temporary work visas which do not have dual intent. H1-B is not one of them.
And while you are in a country, you also may want to live like a normal human being by settling down, sending your kids to school and buying property, this is all legal and allowed by law. Indian H1-Bs live with that fear and are not "entitled" as much as you are entitled to breathe air to live.
jashsayani t1_j1gbfzy wrote
Sure, you can have intent to get a Green Card. But you might not get one. Intention does not give you the right to demand one. Being eligible does not mean anything.
imdb_shenanigans t1_j1go5y0 wrote
You are enjoying a dramatic moment which is fine. I have an approved i140 and "demanding" a green card like a spoiled entitled baby that I am. But strangely no one's listening. So it appears that you can be as entitled about demanding a green card but if the law says no, it's a no. When a new law comes in and says you have it, I will have it. In both scenarios why are you getting so agitated? :)
the_mullet_fondler t1_j1gir66 wrote
But it's not a temporary visa lol it is dual purpose...
ghx16 t1_j1gf532 wrote
>At the same time, some of the foreign workers feeling they are entitled to Green Cards (and demanding them) is ridiculous.
Im surprised you're getting upvoted for saying this on reddit, when it's foreign workers taking lower income jobs the consensus here is that every human has right to permanently live wherever they need in order to have a better life, when it's middle-class jobs the ones being affected then things suddenly change
At the end of the way corporations couldn't care less about human rights, they're just nickel-and-dimming whenever they can
acroback t1_j1gsne6 wrote
Exactly, people like him are salty folks who cannot compete with tech workers and then rant like they are entitled for their jobs just because they are citizens.
PS: I am a Hiring Manager and see these things up close.
ghx16 t1_j1gu4sb wrote
Wait, so are you saying these companies are bringing talent from other parts of the world because they seriously can't find competent employees here or is it because they can't find it at the salaries they're willing to pay?
Because while I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the consensus here on reddit when it comes to immigrant workers I would also like to point out I have already seen in the past and I'm not buying that story that the talent is not out there, and that's why companies bring labor from other parts of the world, it is often just used as a loophole to get cheaper labor
acroback t1_j1h3a0a wrote
Ok, let me explain to you.
For every good policy there are ways it can be exploited. And some companies take advantage of it.
I have hired some folks on H1B and most of them are hard working honest residents who are equal if not better than local hires. Only exception were 2 who were let go. Local hires on the other hand are good to average, just one I would call really really good.
Locals and H1B are paid exactly same, no difference whatsoever. Infact some H1Bs are paid base $300k plus bonuses. Why would I approve it if they were bad or I was trying to cheap out?
This is not the norm and neither is Disney case. I hope you got the gist.
Gutotito t1_j1hchc5 wrote
>This is not the norm and neither is Disney case. I hope you got the gist.
Bullshit. We have all seen entire teams replaced by cheaper foreign labor. You're fooling precisely nobody, here.
quettil t1_j1hy88v wrote
Why shouldn't citizens be entitled to privileges in their own country/
acroback t1_j1iy5h2 wrote
Just like you don't have privilege to own home. You need to work or earn that money to afford a home.
Life is tough, we all gotta work hard for it. Just demanding a high paying job when you don't have qualifications or attitude is shithousery of umpteenth degree.
Go on tell me how tech jobs are easy and any tom dick And harry can do it with 30 days of online boot camp, I am all ears.
Looks like you and me are living in different US.
quettil t1_j1pviqq wrote
> Just like you don't have privilege to own home.
Used to do. Housing was much cheaper, people could afford to move out of from their parents much younger. We weren't competing with hedge funds and migrants for housing.
>Life is tough, we all gotta work hard for it.
Used to be much easier. Why should we work harder to compete with migrants who have no right to be here? If a country doesn't work for its own people there's no reason for it to exist.
Gutotito t1_j1hccl7 wrote
You're the problem, then; congratulations. The H1B was never intended to be used as a cost-saving measure.
acroback t1_j1gsgeo wrote
People like you blame tech workers when economy is booming - why are we letting foreign workers in, they don't spend high salaries here and take that wealth back to their home countries and then blame them when they spend money despite applying for a legal citizenship path.
It seems they are doomed to be blamed no matter what they do.
Pretty rich of you with that narrow minded view with that username.
Gutotito t1_j1hc8uk wrote
The whole program needs to be scrapped. That we lay off domestic workers and replace them with foreign ones is exactly why the program is bunk -- it was designed to help fill roles that couldn't be filled domestically; not to enrich companies by allowing them to drive down costs.
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