Submitted by jormungandrsjig t3_zvhbvw in technology
NRTime t1_j1pbnpn wrote
Reply to comment by Prinzmegaherz in Robots Are Replacing Workers Lost in the Pandemic. They're Here to Stay. by jormungandrsjig
Universal Basic Income, because without it people will mostly have no purchasing power.
Prinzmegaherz t1_j1pcfz0 wrote
So a very modest stippend for the 99,999999% while the few elites own everything?
freeman_joe t1_j1pp1g0 wrote
We should stop money elites from existing. Nobody earned billions.
OGBEES t1_j1s1boc wrote
People by definition earned billions. What are you even saying lmao
yaosio t1_j1pcwjn wrote
No, UBI will never happen. We will all just be berated for not buying stuff. If UBI does happen then consumerism causes more pollution.
canastrophee t1_j1qxll5 wrote
Ideally, there would be effective corporate tax rates to balance out the amount of revenue they're vacuuming out of circulation without the need to pay human workers. But I really think most people would be artists or gardeners or craftspeople, given the chance, so we'd return to more of a pre-industrialization saturation of small businesses. UBI would allow people to comfortably take up professions like cobbling and woodworking and shut-in poet laureate without the economy trying to chase them into more financially weighty careers.
We end up with better artists that way, as well. It's easier to practice when you're not worried about starving or freezing or getting medication, but also, people who are good at one difficult skill are usually good at another difficult skill. Mathematicians are frequently also musicians of notable skill -- but math pays exponentially better, so they almost invariably choose math, even when it's not the kind of math they want to do. And I really, really do not blame them.
So if we're following the Thomas Jefferson path of war -> math and science -> arts? We're nearly there, lads.
Flame87 t1_j1raagl wrote
You're trying to attack UBI but all you did was describe modern day capitalism as is. 😂
"The 1% can own everything as long as somebody gets less peanut scraps than me. If everyone gets the same amount of scraps then those other recipients are the problem"
Prinzmegaherz t1_j1t8grn wrote
The thing is, if UBI is just like the status quo, it won‘t change anything.
Flame87 t1_j1t97ht wrote
How boring are you that there's that there's NOTHING ELSE you could be doing without a 40 hour job you hate cause having a roof is pretty cool?
The whole point is that as work becomes less of a "one missed check from homelessness necessity" you can hold out for a job you want. Or start that business with a little breathing room. Or take up art and persue that. The possibilities are endless, while nobody has been able to provide an alternative solution to the very real breakneck pace to automation except accepting our inevitable tumble cause "durr change scary" even though (by your own admission) NOTHING WOULD FUCKING CHANGE except the ability to escape abusive working conditions.
What the hell is it with Americans that the only acceptable system is being broke, abused, and trapped in shit work where management knows they can do ANYTHING AT ALL? Really though, we know the answer. Gotta uphold the power trip fantasy structure because you were lied to and told one day YOU can be the exploiter. Never mind that those people have been building barriers for decades and only 0.some% make it there, surely they'll make an exception for you, because unlike a billion other Americans you are the GoLdEn ChIlD oF aMeRiCaN eXcEpTiOnAlIsM.
Prinzmegaherz t1_j1twvcq wrote
How Dunning Kruger of you. Not getting the point of the discussion and being all smug about it.
Flame87 t1_j1tx3in wrote
"If I print off a Wikipedia page full of fallacies I'll never have to actually argue again, just throw a dart and start masturbating"
JimBeam823 t1_j1puy54 wrote
Nope, the economy will be sustained by fights to the death for the amusement of the idle rich for prize money.
That and prostitution. A lot of prostitution.
tstobes t1_j1qo76t wrote
Ala the film version of the Running Man.
Anton_Cermak t1_j1r2t6x wrote
Could I interest you in an idea called Universal Basic Ownership?
whatdoiwantsky t1_j1qdlo8 wrote
So servitude to the state instead of the capitalists? I can't help but feel UBI is an extension of the problem rather than a solution.
fitzroy95 t1_j1r4g5o wrote
do you have an alternative ?
whatdoiwantsky t1_j1r4zl8 wrote
Yeah: Europe.
fitzroy95 t1_j1r5snc wrote
you planning on running overseas to get a benefit in Europe instead ?
[deleted] t1_j1r69gd wrote
[deleted]
whatdoiwantsky t1_j1r6n3a wrote
I mean the European system. Which is better than America's. But you already knew that. You just want to be the bad faith aggro troll. Props to you
fitzroy95 t1_j1r7kkr wrote
FFS - nothing there was a "bad faith aggro troll", other than your defensiveness.
I was merely stating that Europe will be forced to go the UBI route as well as AI & automation becomes more capable and moves into more and more jobs.
Certainly European nations are much more likely to start using some form of UBI well before the USA does, and their social welfare system is likely to transition in the direction increasingly over the next couple of decades.
whatdoiwantsky t1_j1r8syq wrote
You are talking about the might be. You asked me about now. Right now, European citizens are better off healthier and happier than a US citizen.
fitzroy95 t1_j1r9mvi wrote
the discussion was about UBI, something that doesn't already exist very widely, so the discussion was clearly about the future and "might be".
and you still haven't provided an alternative to UBI, which is what I asked about before you got so aggro.
And Yes, I know that much/most of the western world take care of their citizens better than the USA, but that was never part of the discussion.
whatdoiwantsky t1_j1rb9ut wrote
That's fine. Sounds like we're in fundamental agreement tbh. My point was I would prefer that the US pursue the "European" style before it pursued UBI.
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