manfromfuture t1_j1hzzqd wrote
I'm having trouble believing he's going to face any real punishment. I suppose I thought the same about Elizabeth Holmes, but this feels like a more nebulous kind of fraud.
rayinreverse t1_j1i0zd6 wrote
Madoff will die in prison.
Edit- he died in prison.
Equivocals t1_j1i4e4b wrote
He already did in April of 2021. It all boils down to the documentation available at this point. It's very easy to know that he was guilty of fraud, but you have to be able to prove it as well. If they have concrete emails/chatlogs where he admits anything, he is toast. If not, he will probably get a slap on the wrist for incompetence.
krum t1_j1j71ag wrote
Chatlogs? The chat room was literally called wirefraud. I know it's not proof, but come on.
rayinreverse t1_j1i5uhm wrote
He basically represents crypto. The bankers are DYING for him to be found guilty. I’d be willing to bet the case is strong.
manfromfuture t1_j1i8vjs wrote
Madoff's fraud was pretty straightforward. He sent shareholders forms saying "this is how much money we are holding for you" and really there was no money. I don't know what FTX did but it sounds more complicated. Was FTX even the same kind of financial entity?
mingy t1_j1kiofp wrote
Are you kidding? The FTX fraud was a fucking joke: basically he said "hey, I'm unregulated - give me your money" and cryptobros are so fucking stupid they did. It took Madoff decades to get to the position of confidence were he was able to convince relatively sophisticated people to invest in his (allegedly) regulated business. When regulator started sniffing around, Madoff had to charm them.
FTX was the equivalent of a cardboard box wrapped in tinfoil with BANK written on with crayon.
Equivocals t1_j1i9nyd wrote
While the FTX implosion was significant, he in no way represents crypto. At its peak FTX was valued at 32b and down to 18b just a few months later. Bitcoin alone is valued at 325 billion even in this bear market. If bankers were concerned about crypto gaining ground, they would not even cheer on this, as this is good for crypto: the more scammers who get locked up, the less there will be in the future, and the more people will know how to hold their crypto
DoktorFreedom t1_j1jj3bd wrote
“This is good for crypto” Should be a sentence you know not to use by now.
“You just don’t understand” also doesn’t have much throw weight
LostB18 t1_j1jxpa6 wrote
Eh, the majority of people commenting on either side of this issue really don’t understand though.
rayinreverse t1_j1ib221 wrote
To bankers and the people they spend money on, he does. Symbolically. There will be so much media attention on this and it will be framed first and constantly that he was a crypto guy. Not a thief. A fraud, liar, cheat. A crypto guy.
gladmonkey t1_j1iri09 wrote
Er. It’s not hazy at all.
It’s clear.
He violated his own terms of agreement and stole money from his clients to bankroll his other company - and himself.
Dude is going to jail. He’s up on 6 life counts. Sure, he wont get the most harsh sentence.
But he isn’t walking from this.
magicbeansascoins t1_j1lzql2 wrote
His parents appear relatively relaxed and blasé. Suspect they can pull of deals and by 35, all will be forgotten.
manfromfuture t1_j1iuugw wrote
Again my question is about what kind of company FTX was and did they have the same fiduciary responsibility as a bank or brokerage. They were incorporated in the Bahamas and not federally insured as they claimed.
Enlogen t1_j1iwgt7 wrote
> did they have the same fiduciary responsibility as a bank or brokerage
Not relevant. They had the duty to follow through on contractual agreements with users, but they never had any intention of holding up their end of the agreement. Any profit based on lies is criminal fraud.
mrrosenthal t1_j1l7rxg wrote
What's the agreement? My understanding is not your crypto it's not your money and
Your money is earning interest we will try to pay you back
bannannamo t1_j1j078h wrote
They had a literal bank in Washington that washed millions in usd
Ftx was many companies.
gladmonkey t1_j1j3faz wrote
They filed for bankruptcy in the United States.
Reinheardt t1_j1i5yms wrote
He has been making it sound complicated but it sounds like she is saying “yep it was fraud”
manfromfuture t1_j1i7kn9 wrote
Do normal FEC laws apply to crypto and NFTs? Have they really caught up to all the nonsense? I'm not sure they ever caught up (or could catch up to) to regulating CDOs.
How do you regulate a service that trades in stuff like shares of bored ape pictures?
rcxdude t1_j1igrt6 wrote
Doesn't matter, FTX was also holding and misappropriating real money as well.
Enlogen t1_j1iw7az wrote
They don't need new regulation for crypto, it's not something new or special, it's just a security with extra steps.
krum t1_j1j77rm wrote
Crypto really isn't a security. Pretending that it is is the whole problem here.
Level_-_Up t1_j1ji59u wrote
Tokens kind of are though, that’s the whole point
grinch1225 t1_j1klm7n wrote
Exchanging real currency for a representative asset with a value attached is almost textbook definition of securities and trading.
manfromfuture t1_j1kod6c wrote
Kind of what I figured and why so many of them seem to act with such impunity.
empirebuilder1 t1_j1jbd59 wrote
He stole from rich people. He's gonna get the whole book thrown at him.
Agreeable_Ocelot3902 t1_j1k6er9 wrote
But then gets the opportunity to go on house arrest. He’s part of the club
FreshhSqueezedOJ t1_j1kmgnp wrote
Yep.
You can rob the middle class all you want, but when you embarrass rich people... Party is over.
blacksnowboader t1_j1jsox6 wrote
So, the feds have like a 97% conviction rate. So if they make it to court, he’s done. The only way he makes it out of this if he has a plea deal.
ArmageddonsEngineerz t1_j1k76su wrote
Mostly they wait until the evidence is so extensive, that it's almost impossible to fuck up a case. And if something falls apart, they simply drop the case.
blacksnowboader t1_j1kber3 wrote
I think the velocity of an extradition should be somewhat of a indicator for the evidence.
ArmageddonsEngineerz t1_j1llr0s wrote
The Bahamian government was cool with letting him chill out waiting for months/years. But in the jail, not out on bail waiting to flee to Dubai, or wherever he might be able to bribe his way to the next spot to flee.
BeDecentFFS t1_j1kieb8 wrote
It’s kind of early in the case but I’d wager he will see more time than Holmes.
Crizbibble t1_j1ka6no wrote
If the Alameda CEO, SBF and the CTO got together in a room and discussed doing what they ended up doing then you have an open and shut conspiracy to commit fraud. If there is a recording or video of it which I’m sure there was because they are all that stupid, then the noose gets even tighter. The FEDs obviously have enough information that they broke her and the CTO in under 2 months. SBF isn’t getting a deal, he will have the book and the building thrown at him and he is probably spending a significant amount of time in prison.
just_a_nice_dad t1_j1kmxu3 wrote
They don't have a video but they talked about the fraud in coded language electronically. I believe they called the account where they hid the loses the "Korean account" or something dumb like that.
LCDJosh t1_j1khacp wrote
It'll be interesting to see how this goes. On one hand he was incredibly wealthy, and we all know the United States has a completely different justice system once you hit a certain amount of 0's in your bank account. On the other hand SBF violated one of the central tenets of the rich peoples justice system: "don't fuck over other rich people".
wpyoga t1_j1kqhxx wrote
SBF couldn't get pregnant and try to gain sympathy from the public.
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