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Strident_Hood t1_iu9rldq wrote

Reply to comment by ThreeLittlePuigs in Opinion | ‘House of the Dragon’ and ‘The Rings of Power’ Both Use Diverse Casting. One of Them Does It Better. by Solid_Rice

Do you think Tolkien imagined his universe as having every 4th person black for no reason other than to hit diversity quotas? How are there non-homogenous communities in an age pre-global migration? Don’t try to act like the author misinterpreted Tolkien when we both know I am right.

EDIT: I’m supportive of diversity but in the context of this series it was not done right. For example, if they wanted to include asian people then have a story set in Rhun. If they wanted to include black people then have a story set in Harad.

You can include diversity while respecting the world Tolkien built but instead they did the lazy route and made a pre-industrial and pre-global migration based on Western Europe reflect the diversity of modern day America.

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WordsAreSomething t1_iu9tn45 wrote

Do you need a reason for nonwhite people to exist

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orderinthefort t1_iuadk18 wrote

Yes. For the same reason why I would need a reason for White, Latino or Asian people to exist in Wakanda before they went international. If there's logical inconsistency, it will rub people the wrong way.

It's really no different logically than if WB cast Stephen Hawking as Superman. It doesn't make sense. He physically just could not be Superman. If something doesn't make sense, it causes friction.

I'm not saying history doesn't favor white people, and it definitely indirectly causes 17-20th century European and American stories to naturally favor white people as well. But at the end of the day if there's a historical context to the fiction, then it's weird to be shocked when people hold it to historical logic. And when it fails to adhere to that logic, it's normal for people to be annoyed by it.

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WordsAreSomething t1_iuae8z6 wrote

>Yes. For the same reason why I would need a reason for White, Latino or Asian people to exist in Wakanda before they went international.

Yeah because a completely fictional land is the same as a fictional country in the real world and they need to follow the same thought process for the race of the inhabitants.

There is no reason a elf needs to be white.

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orderinthefort t1_iuafgg6 wrote

Because we have Tolkien historical lore that follows the logic of our reality. Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, even Humans themselves were separated into homogeneous groups, most of whom despised each other. A group of humans in Harad were dark-skinned.

People were mad when they added a hot elf character in the Hobbit movies so they could make a love story with a dwarf. It directly shits on the historical lore of the books because there wasn't any narrative logic for it, it was purely external.

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WordsAreSomething t1_iuagj7f wrote

My whole point is that there doesn't need to narrative reason for nonwhite people to exist. If the only reason you're critical of the race of the characters in ROP is because "historical lore" then I think you need to reconsider your perspective.

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orderinthefort t1_iuah5d7 wrote

I understand and I'm just saying that I disagree. I think there needs to be a narrative reason for virtually every facet of a story. No story is perfect, and some poor logic is more forgivable than others. It has nothing to do specifically with skin color or race. But a visual inconsistency is more apparent than non-visual because you're constantly reminded by it and it takes you out of the immersion.

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Dawnbringerify t1_iuan5zm wrote

Completely fictional land? LOTR is set in the real world, in Europe in a fictionalised history set 6000 years ago.

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PowRightInTheBalls t1_iub1ast wrote

Oh so adding elves and dwarves to Europe circa 4000 BC is realistic but adding black people to the European continent circa 4000 BC is unrealistic bullshit that completely ruins the source material?

Elves are fictional. Dwarves are fictional. Ents are fictional. Orcs are fictional. Magic is fictional. Nothing about LOTR is realistic or reflects real-life ancient Europe at all. So get the fuck over yourself that they added one more fictional thing to a fictional world.

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bizarrobazaar t1_iuakyf7 wrote

Does HotD give us a reason why black people exist or something?

The point is that diversity can be more than just tokenism. Writing roles with substance for people of colour instead of adding them in and pretending like race doesn't exist. HotD really did a great job with it while RoP was extremely on the nose.

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ConnorMc1eod t1_iuaw82t wrote

I mean, in the context of the adapting an existing story sure.

If we had a movie about Yoruban deities I would not expect there to be any white people because that'd be kind of dumb.

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fullofhotsoup t1_iua8g05 wrote

Lol thank you. Every time I see these posts I can’t believe it’s even a conversation. Did the actors play their characters well? Then wtf does it matter what color their skin is?

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-OrangeLightning4 t1_iua3n34 wrote

Do you get annoyed when you go to public places and black people exist? I'm picturing you running up to every black person you come across and asking them why they're there.

"I counted 3 white people and then saw you. It just feels a little forced, you know?"

Actually I'm starting to see why there are so many videos of Karens doing exactly that.

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ThreeLittlePuigs t1_iu9s3dm wrote

I don’t think Tolkien would care but neither of us know? You could say “did Tolkien want this shot in HD? Do you think he wanted this to be streamed online?” It’s really got nothing to do with him. I personally don’t mind the race blind casting. I think only a small portion of folks seem to…..also this has nothing to do with the comment you responded to?

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SyrioForel t1_iu9sgwh wrote

What’s stopping a fantasy setting from “having every 4th person black”?

“Oh but it’s not realistic…” Correct. It’s a piece of fantasy.

“But I want fantastical things to be grounded in realistic things…” Fantasy does not need to follow this rule, and if you were a real fan of the genre, you’d realize that.

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