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24benson t1_itukywq wrote

Reply to comment by TheRed_Knight in TIL The European 30 Years' War 1618 - 1648 began with Czech nobles throwing two Habsburg governors out of Prague castle window onto a huge dungheap. The corresponding carnage - fought over the issue of religious freedom following the Protestant Reformation - left millions dead. by Royal_Bumblebee_

It wasn't really about religion for the most part.

Sure, the event that started it was Bohemia offering their crown to a protestant prince and pissing of the catholic emperor. But after that it was all just a big lootfest where every European power just had their way with the peasants of the HRE.

Nothing makes this more clear than catholic France and protestant Sweden teaming up against the empire.

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raymaehn t1_itv88ae wrote

France sponsoring Sweden makes sense from a geopolitical standpoint. It was less a lootfest and more a very calculated move from the French higher-ups to preserve their status.

France was wedged in between Spain which was ruled by the Habsburgs and the HRE which usually had a Habsburg as emperor. The Holy Roman Emperor couldn't actually do all that much without his nobles' consent though, up until the war where the emperor was fighting against some of his most powerful lords.

But Cardinal Richelieu (yes, the one from The Three Musketeers) figured that if the Catholic side (meaning the Emperor) was successful in forcing the protestant lords to re-convert to Catholicism the logical next step would be to take this newfound power and convert the empire into a single centralised realm under Habsburg rule.

That would mean France would quickly lose its status as one of the hegemons of Europe. The best way to prevent this was to keep the emperor small and that meant sponsoring Sweden.

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SirSassyCat t1_iucchhs wrote

It was definitely about religion, at least 50%, the 30 years war basically broke the power of the church in Europe and basically kick started the protestant reformation. The other 50% was mostly politics between France and Austria, each of them trying to become the dominant power in Europe.

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24benson t1_iuceh4q wrote

The protestant reformation was more than a hundred years earlier. The countries that are predominantly protestant today are exactly the ones that were before the war. Where and how did this war kickstart anything?

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SirSassyCat t1_iucfdrp wrote

You're right, I mean kick started freedom of worship, which I erroneously conflated with the reformation.

Also, your statement about religions being the same isn't true. Some territories that were mostly protestant were forced to convert back to Catholicism as part of the peace.

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