Comments
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p789q wrote
>when Santa Claus first died for our sins
nice. Serves him right.
wait. "first died"? How many times has this fucker been dying in chimneys for sins.....I need to research this.
Kraqrjack t1_j1p7ub6 wrote
You have 3 days to dig him out 😀
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p80km wrote
or else.
Super_Bong_2 t1_j1upq8u wrote
You need to learn how to tell jokes.
keengt t1_j1p1wcf wrote
Regardless of their history, I hate them.
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p4iyw wrote
totally different topic, but I really don't like how we lie to children about Santa and these elves. And the surveillance concept is weird problem in itself.
We, as adults, create such a fabricated lie to fool our kids. Only to have them have to learn about it someway or another. Sometimes in traumatizing ways for kids who really buy into it.
My ex really pushed the Santa thing too far with my kids. My youngest son was a pretty bright kid but totally gobbling up the NORAD Santa shit. One day I asked him during this NORAD obsession (he was around 8 years old): "you don't really believe Santa is real do you? Flying around in a sled around the world". He started to cry. Fuck if that did not kill me inside. To be an accomplice to a lie that crushed my kid and for him to finally learn the truth from me. I look over to his brother who was over 11-12, and for fucks sake if he wasn't crying as well and I then realized that HE WAS STILL BELIEVING IN SANTA at his age.
I sure did make dad of the year . My Ex sure didn't like that. We got divorced not that long afterwards.
Around that same time my oldest was believing dragons were real because of some kids book his mother gave him that looked like an educational dinosaur book. It vividly described and illustrated the dragons their natural habitat and behaviors with colorful realistic art. I had to tell him the truth that the dragons in that book where not real even though it look like it. He cried. The irony was, my EX hated those discovery channel shows with computer generated dinosaurs and narration pretending to be scientific nature shows. She would criticize those shows because she had a zoology degree and knew the dangers of passing off pseudo science like that to those who may think it is real. children AND adults.
so yea. I hate lies with a passion.
Vlacas12 t1_j1pa6kt wrote
All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
MY POINT EXACTLY.
Green-HoodieGuy t1_j1s4mro wrote
Pratchett?
LeapIntoInaction t1_j1p5kct wrote
Yeah, the elves go back further than the creepy "elf on a shelf" alleged "tradition". So? They used an off-the-shelf elf for their elf on a shelf.
sammiemo t1_j1q2xe5 wrote
I hate to defend Elf on the Shelf, but there weren't really any "traditions" associated with Knee Hugger Elves. I grew up with a "Knee Hugger Elf" on the tree every year. I think it dated back to 1960. It was just an ornament that looked kinda like my big brother.
kissmekate48 t1_j1sza5c wrote
Yeah, I have one from the early 60s. It was always just a deco. Not Santa’s spy.
kissmekate48 t1_j1szapi wrote
Yeah, I have one from the early 60s. It was always just a deco. Not Santa’s spy.
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p243c wrote
I started researching the idea that "elf on the shelf" came about from a book from 2005.
The following is my research and response to this article:
This was a real family tradition as my ex's family had this going on in the 70's.
They were Appalachian, upstate NY people. Germans/scandanavians ancestry.
There is history regarding this tradition. And I think this author is falsely trying to claim credit for copyright litigation intent.
EDIT: did some research on the name Aebersold (the author's surname)
https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=aebersold
"South German and Swiss German (Äbersold): variant spelling of Ebersold."
So, family tradition for the author with a German name. And my experience with my ex who, with a German surname and of German ancestry, and who grew up in a predominantly German/Dutch area of the Appalachians/Hudson Valley area, engaged in the SAME tradition that she passed on to our kids BEFORE the printing of this book.
I would NOT be surprised at all, if the authors who came up with Dwight and Mose Schrute also knew of this tradition existing in the dutch community.
EDIT: the more I research this, the more it reeks. I'm gonna say this: It is my opinion that they do not OWN "elf on the shelf" anymore than someone OWNS santa clause. I think this is the direction these people are going with this piece of cultural heritage.
adding this interesting article on "Cultural IP vs Commercial IP" from the American Bar Association.
It has interesting discussions such as the idea of trademarking the word "aloha",“Día de los Muertos,” and “kimono,”
There are a lot of other "elf on a shelf" products out there that are not controlled by this makers of this book.
It is interesting that this company, sitting on a media gold mine, started to seriously mine that gold and push out a lot of media back in 2011, around same time the wiki article was started. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4743438/bio
The history of edits and conversation in the wiki are also interesting.
I am now curious if this company that claims IP control of "elf on a shelf" are actively engaged in any legal actions to control said IP.
EDIT: “We are no longer a company whose focus is solely on a book about a magical Scout Elf, but one focused on an entire North Pole universe filled with a cast of characters with endless stories to be told.” https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200115005577/en/CCA-and-B-LLC-the-Creator-of-The-Elf-on-the-Shelf%C2%AE-Appoints-New-President-and-New-Chief-Administrative-Officer
EDIT: everything keeps ditto'ing this claim: Elf on the Shelf was created by the author. not the BOOK "elf on the shelf". https://ip.com/blog/popular-ideas-come-life-elf-shelf/
No different than going around saying you invented santa claus.
here for example are a bunch of vintage elf dolls sold on ebay. Many of them being the "knee hugger elf" https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_nkw=elf+doll+vintage&Brand=&_dcat=261636
oh.....and here it is. the smoking gun. The elf in the shelf prior art.
I present to you the 1950's vintage "knee hugger ELF ON THE SHELF" for 50 something dollars...This is exactly the same doll my EX had and used around the house with my kids....I rest my case.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~h8AAOSwGKVjoatE/s-l1600.jpg
EDIT: interesting note, the "elf on the shelf" sold at Walmart dons a quite visible earring. I remember seeing this before many years ago, but only recently. I wonder if this is what makes this doll version different from the rest.
According to the IP article: https://ip.com/blog/popular-ideas-come-life-elf-shelf/ "Two federal trademark applications were filed in 2005. One was for the words “The Elf on the Shelf” and the other application was for this elf drawing, below. However, both of the applications were abandoned" "The applicant then filed for new applications for the Elf design and for “The Elf on the Shelf” (stylized) in 2008 and registered later that year."
here is an article on the litigious behavior of these people. they sued a parody called "elf off the shelf" and LOST. one person asks, if some one making a shelf elf pattern would loose in court. "anonymous" replied, "no, these elves have been around since the 60's. These people did not "invent" this elf.
https://tushnet.blogspot.com/2011/10/elf-defense-parody-defeats-tm-and.html
look a the date. 2011.....same time they started pushing the commercialization and marketing and that wiki entry.
I love digging up info like this. If it smells of bullshit, looks like bullshit, sounds like bullshit.......its BULLSHIT.
LoveTriscuit t1_j1p6l5h wrote
You should really use the link function in Reddit to hide those urls inside a title or word.
Good investigation, though.
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1p6xmz wrote
thanks. I've been told on more than one occasion can be tenacious.
Also, I'm a bit new to "the reddit"
I usually have to enter markdown mode because the regular editor always flakes out on me and gets corrupted. Don't know if it is my browser but research shows: The reddit text editor has a history of problems.
so I markdown and don't bother fighting with it.
[deleted] t1_j1psz75 wrote
[removed]
CrashTest-DummyThicc t1_j1p43xn wrote
Still just a way to condition kids to surveillance.
DaveOJ12 t1_j1p685c wrote
Suuuure.
mrs-harvey t1_j1q4ueo wrote
We jokingly do "Grinch on a bench". My kids begged to do Elf on Shelf, even the oldest who knew about Santa. My husband and I are against tattle tale elfs that spy on you. We say that Santa gives gifts because of love. We don't stop loving because they did something wrong. So instead of Elf on the Shelf, we bought a small stuffed Grinch and Max. They wear Elf on the Shelf clothes and get moved around. However, we started by explaining that this is a fun thing and not about telling Santa anything. Mom and Dad move it and forget sometimes. We'll only do it if you're ok with us forgetting sometimes. If one of the kids comments about the Grinch not moving, they help us come up with an idea before their siblings see it.
DrewskiWoosky t1_j1r695q wrote
WAY better than Facehugger Elves
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1rnboc wrote
wow, I think FACEHUGGER ELVES are way, WAY more interesting.
They simply dont care if you've been good or bad....only if you TASTE good or bad.
is there a reddit group of artists that can visualize this concept ?
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1rnwi1 wrote
This was on reddit. not what I had in mind. I'm more into the elf itself as a facehugger.
but still, I like this guy's imagination.
dorian-araneda OP t1_j1rrp43 wrote
I just sent an email to the man ...Mr Meatcanyon. If there is a soul that could visualize this...it's the old Meatcanyon himself.
refugefirstmate t1_j1q9xgs wrote
The elf figurine did. The whole "shelf" thing, and the weirdness around it, is 21st century.
majorjoe23 t1_j1r68l6 wrote
We used to have a few of these on our Christmas tree in the 80s. When Elf on the Shelf first got popular it was an odd sense of deja vu.
for2fly t1_j1tw6pf wrote
My family had those elves as Christmas ornaments back in the early 1960s. They had no "you're being watched" bullshit connected with them.
The elf-on-the-shelf just used a common widely-available ornament, which in my mind, tainted it forever.
Elf-on-the-shelf isn't a "Christmas Tradtion." It is a control-freak, narcissist parenting fever-dream. There is nothing wholesome about it.
Madrona88 t1_j1q3nv5 wrote
I had something like this but my elf was wired for adjustment and wore a green velvet suit. Maybe it was an upcycle...Im early Gen X.
Kraqrjack t1_j1p6cj4 wrote
I saw the earlier thread about this. The woman who wrote about it was telling of her own childhood experience from the 1970s. My family also had an elf back then. I always assumed everyone did. I was about to become indignant and state MY generation invented it so I looked it up. Turns out Scout elves have been part of Christmas stories since day 1 when Santa Claus first died for our sins (fatass got stuck in a chimney) and parents have been using them to scare children ever since. Old as dirt, who knew.