Submitted by KingN0 t3_ygwdl2 in wallstreetbets
If I had known Apple’s results before they came out.. I still would have bought puts. The only reason they went up yesterday is because the market is doomed if Apple crashes. Rigged market. Impossible to trade half the time.
Regarded OP doesn’t understand that the only thing that matters is fed
everyone that’s a shit trader tends to say it’s rigged, successful traders don’t talk blabber
Yea, people don’t attribute winning their wild ass bets to good luck
Even successful traders know it’s rigged. They just try to use that information to their advantage.
If you were insider trading you wouldn't have to hold through earnings you would already have made your money and cashed out by then.
>KingN0, I completely agree with you. The market is rigged and it is impossible to trade half the time.
Yea... This market is going to break a lot of people. They always do. Even the best traders get stomped out trying to hard to play shit like this. On the bright side, when we get a great market just think of how fucking rich everyone that survived this will be.
But first you gotta survive
You ever heard of something called investing? Buy a good company at a good price then sit on your ass
Literally posting this on WSB. Imagine 🤣
Lmao I know, I’m crazy
Then Direct register share.
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Like didi
This is the way.
The "rigged market" claim is the dumbest shit on the planet and I see it every day I'm on here. It would fucking vaporize an inconceivable amount of money to artificially maintain an unfair price level on a company of that scale. They'd have to dump hundreds of billions into something that they know is overpriced. Who the fuck is doing this? Why? The MUCH simpler explanation is that you can't handle taking an L.
This is the wrong take because you think all orders actually make it to LIT markets (NYSE, etc.) whereas there is 5-6 layers of actual movement with internalization methods.
Gary gensler head of the SEC currently was quoted saying "90-95% of all retail orders do not make it to lit markets" So that means 9-9.5 out of every 10 trades at least by 100's of millions of regular retail never go to market. (or how ever many millions of regular workers invest actively)
So what you could be seeing is internalization methods of not currently settled shares being used to prop up stocks.
EX: I bought 100 shares of apple 3 months ago at $180 (This is not the price from 3 months ago, its just used for an example) but my broker doesn't send it to a lit market, it internalizes it. So I never actually get shares or anything at all other than the digital representation of it and can choose to sell or buy more if need be.
Now 3 months later, the broker is pushed by a large entity to spit out their needed settlement deliveries and market makers and other brokers are instructed to not put sells to the lit market (Let's not forget APEX and Citadel told 50+ brokers to HALT TRADING on a popular stock recently last year and the brokers OBEYED!)
Now this is all done by algo's, cause in 2010-2011 the market crashed when an algo went offline and the ENTIRE market died no buys no sells for 30+ Seconds. LITERALLY.
So the broker pushes its needed settlement to the lit market, fulfilling orders finally required months back, while the sells are held to wait for the same style metric, and the company whose stock is involved in this rockets upwards unnaturally.
This is just a thought exercise. But it technically could be hidden easily and this is how the market works.
You should look into MARKET MAKERS like Virtu
The CEO DOUG CIFU was quoted on air saying "We provide INFINITE liquidity" now if you can provide infinite liquidity for any share on the market, you can also affect the way the INFINITE liquidity directs itself to affect the price of a stock.
You would do this to stave off a margin call/sell obligation that is over-leveraged and would collapse the company instantly
The market is a convoluted mess but it is rooted in something very simple - money makes the price move. You HAVE to lose money if you want a price to stay above a certain level and any kind of pressure exists trying to pull it below that level. Even if the loss is entirely in opportunity cost, you must lose. There is no winning strategy that involves propping up a price like weekend at bernie's. Ask the GME cult's ex wives.
You just don't get it.
The market, where the prices move, are kept away from most orders. The order flow of purchases and sells is being manipulated at high speed with algorithm's to use math to move the stock.
If 90-95% of all orders are kept internalized by an algo and never make it to market, not only does the price NOT move because NO orders go to the market, but due to the systems fail-to-deliver settlement period, most times YOU dont get fuckin ANYTHING other than 1's and 0's visually displaying that you own stock.
SO months later they'll us this purchase or sell via the algo into the market when need be in blocks of 100 or whatever is needed. This settles their failure-to-deliver while giving them actual orders to use at their whim.
The algo will use these to skim pennies off of to make $, or they will lost small amounts of $ to drop it, so that way their hedges, derivatives, etc make MORE $ than the cost to drop it with all the "Non-settled" orders in the system.
Most times with pay for order flow they can MAKE profit off this type of movement.
The GME Comment was lame as fuck, most those "Cultists" Know vastly more than you regarding the actual way the stock market moves.
You shouldn't bandwagon onto social media style team hating, it's fuckin sad.
This ain't no movement you fuckin mouthbreather. Trading is not a team support.
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Yes. Exactly my point.
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I realize this is an old conversation and I should probably just leave it, but I want to set it straight.
When an institution internalizes your order, it is functionally identical to them inversing your position as far as their books are concerned. It is true that they don't bring your order to market, but they also don't bring their own inversion. They also do this at your discretion, not theirs. They gain the option to bring your order to market at their discretion which, again, is functionally identical to closing out the inverse of your position. You also have the right to send an order to close your position at your discretion which the institution also internalizes, effectively closing their inverse position on their books - but not the open market.
If they brought these exact trades to market together instead, it would only increase volatility, not move the market directionally. All they really gain by doing this is eliminating the risk of slippage when making large trades, plus whatever fees and commissions they collect. They still realize the P/L of the spread between when you open your position and either when they close their internal inverse position or when you close your position. When they choose to bring your order to market, yes, the market moves, but they also must still realize a loss if they are in the red. If they bring your order to market to (effectively) close their internal position while yours is still open with them, the market moves against you AND them, because they're now in an identical position to you in the open market until you close out and they bring your closing order to market.
Internalization doesn't give them the ability to manipulate the market in their favor. What they gain is the elimination of slippage. You can also benefit from this through reduced volatility on the open market. You can trade with narrower stops and profit targets.
Also, I don't care about the internet bandwagon. I personally think the dialogue around GME is eerily similar to online conspiracy groups and it creeps me tf out. Also I think the whole thing is a giant FOMO and the squeeze squoze a long time ago. You do you, though.
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Anti Evil reddit deleted this on me... StupiD words.
" It is true that they don't bring your order to market, but they also don't bring their own inversion. They also do this at your discretion, not theirs."
No they don't, they use the inversion of someone else's trade that hasn't settled yet either buy or sell. They own both sides of a full trade internalized.
"When they choose to bring your order to market, yes, the market moves, but they also must still realize a loss if they are in the red. "Losing a current trade in this market is akin to losing a single soldier in the battle. It's irrelevant as it's volume that is important. Every purchase and sell by an individual internalized is an up and down movement they can further utilize. All this done by algos. They'll on purpose lose thousands of trades to WIN a hedge/derivative betting against those trades they used. The individual trades are pawns. Again all ago's. all attached.
"Internalization doesn't give them the ability to manipulate the market in their favor. What they gain is the elimination of slippage. You can also benefit from this through reduced volatility on the open market. You can trade with narrower stops and profit targets."Yes although true for eliminating slippage, you forget that internalizing is not JUST a buy or JUST a sell, it's the entire transaction. each has it's own "period" of time before it's required to be sent to an external market, if it's not just wiped internally.
I could buy a 100 block share of Tesla, and 37 days later I sell. there's still 53 days left to actually buy *potentially longer* the actual block, or just nullify it. So on day 85 it uses your 100 share block purchase for its own purpose to move the stock, and then uses your sell order on day 88 to make a profit on the move.
"Also, I don't care about the internet bandwagon. I personally think the dialogue around GME is eerily similar to online conspiracy groups and it creeps me tf out. Also I think the whole thing is a giant FOMO and the squeeze squoze a long time ago. You do you, though."
No it's eerily similar to Tesla. These people aren't Conspiracy regards they're bandwagon investors. This is Tesla 2.0 regarding GME, i know it's brick n mortar I know its NFT Jpegs but the CULT is the exact same as TSLA in 2012-2018 era and I'll ride ANY financial cult cause those morons refuse to sell which even WARREN BUFFET famously states all short sellers are just future buyers, so they just cultishly out wait anyone betting against people willing to worship a south american (sl()ave) < they deleted my comment cause of that word... mine owners kid. It's fuckin dumb on both sides but im here for money.
This ain't no movement you fuckin mouthbreather. Trading is not a team support.
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>Ya don't worry about this, I'm up for discussion about this as deep as you need to go. It's critical we start to understand the stock market is not what it was supposed to be, or agreed to midway, and the end stages are just superman3/office space skimming and manipulation combinations that are decimating the retail investor
Plunge Protection Team
👁⃤ Illuminerdy confirmed 👁⃤
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This is the nerdiest thing I have ever seen. And really to think that the PPT is a joke is ignorant.
Buddy I think you're misinformed lol. I'm not disagreeing with everything you said but if you don't think they have the power to CONTROL stock prices in the MM favor then you've not spent enough time in the market watching price action
They already have lmao you regard
Im actually doing fine despite the current situation. There are a lot of opportunities right now.
Apple is probably the only company stock that is a flight to safety as well as a Fed pivot bet right now.
In fact, I might say they are the only tech company that isn’t risky for a couple of reasons. The first is that their products are more hardware than services. The hardware itself is a brand on the level of Coca Cola. In addition their supply chain has proven resilient even with everything that has gone on. This goes beyond simple sourcing, their M series of chips is a technologically disruptive feat that I still can’t believe they pulled off.
I want you to name one mega cap stock that is both a solid value play as well as a solid growth play. That’s literally just Apple.
Now of course, as the treasury yields go up I’m sure Apple will be seen as more of a growth play than a value play and prices will shift accordingly.
Big money can push prices that small money can’t. A part Of The reason why OI on option strikes matter
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You’re first mistake was that you took the job.
You are not wrong, the market is!
I sold puts before earnings, calls after.
The market is human.
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If you realize it’s rigged then think of how and why.
That leaves you the other half of the time to kill it!
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The game is only rigged out of the perspective of those with limited insight and ressources. The trader teams with millions in budget and highly developed algorithms and all the data access you can dream of surely don't think it's rigged.. for them. They rig it for you because you compete against them.
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Everyone and their mom was buying Apple puts Thursday. I’m part of the 10% of retail traders that are profitable. All I’m trying to say is it’s a tricky market to trade. I think everyone can agree on that.
You are just a bad trader. That is all. We have all been there.
Aapl's numbers were at expectations which given the market is actually good. They also raised prices for their services and have maintained their Pro models are selling well.
Aapl is #1 in the S&P and Nasdaq. Also huge holding for Berkshire. If you don't think all of this creates a constant buying pressure for Aapl you are crazy. 7 to 8% of every dollar going into 401k is going to Aapl.
Everyone still has full confidence in them. Meta was destroyed because of loss of confidence.
Sometimes if too many people think it is going a certain way it doesn't. Think of how much money was made by Puts sellers, there was an incentive to prop it up.
Meta was destroyed because the metaverse or at least their version is a joke.
rylar t1_iuat1k5 wrote
yeah it’s not because you’re bad at this, the market is rigged.