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Most_kinds_of_Dirt t1_jdwzn25 wrote

Reply to comment by Feisty_Law_3321 in Felon who killed DC cyclist attempts to vacate plea deal. by [deleted]

Why? This guy committed a crime and was sentenced. That's the system working.

He can attempt to vacate the plea deal if he wants, but no judge has to grant his request.

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Free_Dog_6837 t1_jdxrfri wrote

he wasn't sentenced to life without parole

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Salami2000 t1_jdy3p5s wrote

You don't get life in prison for manslaughter.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdy5fhz wrote

But you sure can get that sentence for murder—which the facts of this case easily supported if the AUSA had been willing to fight harder. (1) Fleeing from the cops in a stolen car while high on PCP and violating probation is straightforwardly felony murder. (2) Continuing to drive, pedal to the floor, after you’ve hit someone and you drag them until you hit a tree, pinning and killing them, is plenty to support a murder charge directly.

The maximum penalty for the lesser charge—which I think is shameful to begin with—simply is not relevant. Even if it was, the maximum sentence for that charge was 25 years. How do you excuse Little getting only 8?

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Salami2000 t1_jdy6ivz wrote

Fleeing and being high do not get you to felony murder. Not at all. Certainly not "straightforwardly "

And maybe the facts on (2) can get you to murder, but that's going to be a difficult argument. Which is why there are plea deals, so someone doesn't go free because you couldn't prove your case.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdy9fl5 wrote

(1) Yes, they do get you felony murder. See the relevant statute… § 22–2101. Murder in the first degree — Purposeful killing; killing while perpetrating certain crimes. Whoever[…] kills another […]in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate an offense punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, or […] in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate a felony involving a controlled substance, is guilty of murder in the first degree. [edited for emphasis]

(2) I’m obviously familiar with the utility and purpose of a plea deal. I notice that you did not respond to the fact that he was allowed to plea to an incredibly low sentence when 25 years was on the table for the lesser charge.

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Salami2000 t1_jdybe85 wrote

What felony involving a controlled substance are you saying occurred?

1/3 of the maximum is not incredibly low. You're assuming manslaughter is the lesser charge when it's actually the only realistic charge. Getting 8 or 9 years for manslaughter is a pretty normal sentence.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdyfz2b wrote

The stolen van is a felony—which is sufficient in its own right for felony murder. The reckless driving while fleeing the officers constitutes a felony—which is sufficient in its own right for felony murder. Both of these felonies were also committed while the suspect was on PCP. Further, killing someone while driving under the influence of a schedule 1 narcotic is a third felony and, ipso facto, involves a controlled substance. Those are three separate avenues that enable a felony murder charge.

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Salami2000 t1_jdygx1r wrote

You literally posted the statute showing you need specific named felonies for felony murder. None of which occurred here.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdyii6d wrote

You clearly do not understand the operative effect of “COMMA OR” in that statute.

The first clause, “Perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate an offense punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary” is met by all three felonious acts.

The second clause, which comes after an “or” and so is an alternative clause not a requirement of the first clause, says “in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate a felony involving a controlled substance” is definitely met by the reckless driving high and killing someone felony and arguably by the other two felonies as well.

I would avoid the LSAT and law school if I were you.

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Salami2000 t1_jdyj71g wrote

You're quoting from the section on first degree murder, not felony murder.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdyjxjn wrote

What are you talking about? That is the section for both first degree murder and felony murder. Felony murder is a subset of first degree murder in DC and so it is defined in the same statute—the one I quoted—alongside the other forms of first degree murder.

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Salami2000 t1_jdyl5qt wrote

or without purpose to do so kills another in perpetrating or in attempting to perpetrate any arson, as defined in § 22-301 or § 22-302, first degree sexual abuse, first degree child sexual abuse, first degree cruelty to children, mayhem, robbery, or kidnaping, or in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate any housebreaking while armed with or using a dangerous weapon, or in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate a felony involving a controlled substance, is guilty of murder in the first degree.

Is the only relevant part.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdylvdr wrote

You seem to genuinely lack the processing power to correctly parse that statute. Good luck in life, friend, and play to your strengths, whatever they may be.

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Salami2000 t1_je0jwu6 wrote

Because I'm a glutton for punishment, and because you seem to have convinced 3 other illiterates that what you are saying makes sense, I'll try one more time.

The first part of that statute discusses traditional first degree murder. Only the part I quoted above is about felony murder. The big thing that should clue you in, is that second part starts with "or without any purpose to do so." Anything before that requires intent to kill. Felony murder is specifically about situations where someone did not intend to kill, so the part about intending to kill would not apply.

Only the specific named felonies in the second part can get you to felony murder. The other clue here, is that it would not make sense to say any felony applies, and then name specific felonies. Obviously these must be for separate things. Why do you think they're naming specific felonies?

I am using very small words, this should be easy.

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MyGovThrowaway t1_je0m8xp wrote

The first clause you quote is dependent on the killing being purposeful. Intentionally killing someone during the commission of another felony elevates the charge to murder one. The second half deals with the conditions under which unintentional homicide can be elevated to murder one. FWIW, were it a crim law exam, I think you could score points by calling it a purposeful murder via depraved heart, but that’s at common law, and I don’t believe DC has the equivalent.

That said, given the history of violent crimes, the concurrent felonies, etc, and that he dragged the victim before pinning him against the tree, I’m disappointed, but not surprised, that the AUSA didn’t either go for a longer sentence on the manslaughter charge or even try for murder two.

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gnucheese t1_jdya0bp wrote

In a stolen van. They fucking should. Committing felony activities resulting in the death of another is murder.

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Free_Dog_6837 t1_jdyr8u2 wrote

what he needs, at a minimum, is life without parole

anything less means the system is not working

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