Submitted by TheTelegraph t3_z5vpjs in worldnews
Comments
warrkrack t1_ixytkwb wrote
0 casualties... 100% captured... but they didnt surrender and are heroes! tbh i dont get it. and if you ask questions you just get downvoted.
Scandalous_Andalous t1_ixyvpbf wrote
Someone who is captured is technically considered a casualty
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mraowl t1_ixyxiui wrote
jindc t1_ixzcha4 wrote
I did not know that. Thank you.
[deleted] t1_ixzskhk wrote
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[deleted] t1_iy0aopi wrote
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DapperCourierCat t1_iy07r4x wrote
Lmao he’s factually incorrect
Blenderx06 t1_iy0pv6e wrote
It was incorrect and unhelpful comments get downvoted. It's not personal.
Kapot_ei t1_iy0lg0r wrote
Well they did tell a Russian warship to F itself after being bombed with missiles, knowing they only had grenades and rifles..
They got swarmed and had the only other option to die.
They made the smart choice, doesn't diminish that they did tell a Russian warship to F itself after being bombed with missiles, knowing they only had grenades and rifles..
Dying is nog a requirement for being a hero.
Or are you willing to emphasise on them surrendering, while leaving out the part where they tell a Russian warship to F itself after being bombed with missiles knowing they only had grenades and rifles, for a different agenda??
Tbh, your repeated questioning in the comments of what makes up heroism in this case IS kinda sus tho, resulting in your downvotes.
warrkrack t1_iy1z9x4 wrote
the only reason i got downvoted is because reddit is a propagana spewing website. im guilty of wrongthink. nothing more. they did not fight. they surrendered. and are heroes for not surredring. makes no sense.
999999999999999999x t1_iy20c7n wrote
Hmm you're sounding a bit sus bud
warrkrack t1_iy21l7q wrote
yeah anyone who goes against what reddit tells everyone to think is sus. that's how this website works.
999999999999999999x t1_iy21v53 wrote
Ok buddy. Whatever you say.
warrkrack t1_iy220qz wrote
tell me why I'm sus. please make it make sense for me how you can surrender without a fight. but still be a hero for not surrendering.
and if I question that at all I'm sus? other then questioning the narrative why is that sus?
Kapot_ei t1_iy2ivwr wrote
I did, when i told you they did tell a Russian warship to F itself after being bombed with missiles, knowing they only had grenades and rifles.. knowing and having been threatened with bombing.
Hours later, when they got jumped several to one and they were standing there russians aiming asaultrifles at them from meters away, they surrendered.
Know when to quit, the only other thing to do was tell them "i die for country"
If you can't understand that, you're either ZuZpiciouZly unwilling or mentaly unable to. Either way, discussion is useless.
999999999999999999x t1_iy3ln8o wrote
That video was heard around the world. Set the tone for the war, that the Ukrainian population will look tyrannical cocksuckers in the face and tell them to fuck themselves. Anyone that has an issue with calling them heroes is probably invested in the wrong side imo. History will not be kind no matter how much they try to smudge the record.
Kapot_ei t1_iy4yrj4 wrote
Indeed, which is why in this case i felt the need to bring under attention that they did tell a Russian warship to F itself after being bombed with missiles, knowing they only had grenades and rifles.
Kapot_ei t1_iy2kdyw wrote
I did explain you they did tell a Russian warship to F itself after being bombed with missiles, knowing they only had grenades and rifles.. knowing and having been threatened with bombing.
Hours later, when they got jumped several to one and they were standing there russians aiming asaultrifles at them from meters away, they surrendered.
Know when to quit, the only other thing to do was tell them "i die for country"
If you can't understand that, you're either ZuZpiciouZly unwilling or mentaly unable to. Either way, discussion is useless.
>because reddit is a propagana spewing websit
Free world is against Russian oppression and it's apologists, a true shock to us all, who would've thought?
simondoyle1988 t1_iy0ipo7 wrote
How can you be captured but not surrender
flyingtrucky t1_iy1j69c wrote
I guess it's technically possible if you're knocked unconscious and wake up in custody.
Realistically the warship just kept lobbing shells at them until they surrendered. The fact so few died was probably to try and save ammo, intimidate them into surrender with a dozen shells vs pounding the place to dust so your own guys don't get shot at when moving stuff onto the island.
cymric t1_ixz5hcl wrote
As a Son Texas and Resident of the Alamo City. I salute their defiance in the face of overwhelming force.
HumanBarbarian t1_iy0f09j wrote
Texans were fighting for slavery. There is no honour in that. Check your history again.
cymric t1_iy0fcei wrote
I support your criticism of the Texas revolution, but I still respect the Defiance of the defenders of the Alamo. Santa Ana was not a good ruler either and the Abolitionist Mexicans fought with the White revolutionaries too
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MikeFrench98 t1_iy0w9z3 wrote
You don't need to die to be a hero
warrkrack t1_iy1zcfe wrote
apparently you can also surrender wtithout a fight and be a hero for not surrendering too.
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Exist50 t1_iy0lrlu wrote
Ukraine claimed they had. That was a lie.
MikeFrench98 t1_iy0w7n7 wrote
The Ukrainian governement thought they were dead. When they saw they were wrong, they said so and declared they were happy the soldiers were alive.
It wasn't "a deliberate lie to manipulate the gullibale Westerners into linking Ukraine" like the pro-russians like to say.
dozerbuild t1_iy1l88q wrote
What about the Ghost of Kiev?
Does that propaganda false hood count?
Turnpikes t1_iy26mef wrote
Propaganda is a tool of war. Each person. subjectively picks a propaganda they like.
Exist50 t1_iy0xcqo wrote
>The Ukrainian governement thought they were dead. When they saw they were wrong, they said so and declared they were happy the soldiers were alive.
Lmao, what on earth gave you that idea? They were literally paraded out on Russian TV.
Just like with the recent missile strike in Poland or "Ghost of Kiev", the Ukrainian government is perfectly willing to lie to support the war effort. Russia doesn't have a monopoly on propaganda.
MikeFrench98 t1_iy0xucy wrote
>They were literally paraded out on Russian TV.
Yeah, and? That's when Ukraine discovered they weren't dead, and announced it officially shortly after, even rejoicing about it
Proxyplanet t1_iy1y4og wrote
He shouldnt have even announced they were dead, could have just said suspected dead. But he actually said they were dead heroes that never surrendered. It was pure propoganda, stop making excuses for it.
Exist50 t1_iy0y1xi wrote
Tell me, why so you think Ukraine declared them dead when they very clearly weren't?
> That's when Ukraine discovered they weren't dead, and announced it officially shortly after, even rejoicing about it
Just like how the Ghost of Kiev became metaphorical only after the fact.
TheTelegraph OP t1_ixy7adm wrote
From The Telegraph's reporters:
Some of the Snake Island soldiers who famously stared down death by telling a Russian warship to "go f--- Yourself’ have been freed in a prisoner swap.
"Another exchange of prisoners," said Andrey Yirmak, head of president Zelensky’s office, said.
"We managed to free 12 of our people. The soldiers who defended, in particular, Mariupol, the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant and the Snake Island are going home."
In footage posted online, about a dozen soldiers can be seen walking towards a white van and what appear to be military vehicles waiting for them. Their location is not clear.
The Snake Island soldiers became symbols of heroism and resistance soon into the war after they refused to surrender to threats from the Moskva warship.
When the airwaves from the strategic island outpost in the Black Sea later fell silent, they were presumed killed. It later emerged, however, the 8 border guards, 50 soldiers and two handymen had survived and were being held as prisoners of war. Some were later released in a prisoner swap in April.
Moscow and Kyiv have carried a series of prisoner of war swaps lately, with both sides handing over 50 POWs on Thursday.
Reacting to Saturday's news, one Ukraine resident said on Twitter: "God bless our heroes! Thanks to everyone who brings them home!"
Read more for free here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/11/26/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-live-kherson-evacuation-power/
warrkrack t1_ixy9ql1 wrote
not to be a dick. but they are known as heroes for not surrendering right? was there a battle for snake island?
MyBlackstar t1_ixynldb wrote
They got captured, yes
passatigi t1_ixzauxb wrote
They didn't surrender initially when russia started threatening them. But they didn't have any weapons that could do anything against battleships. So when the island was surrounded they pretty much had only two options: become POWs or die. It's obvious which option is better.
Everything about Snake Island was a good win for Ukraine and a huge failure for russians. Eventually moscow battleship was destroyed by Ukraine and russians were forced to leave Snake Island. But this initial video about Snake Island defenders not giving up was a huge PR win as well. I'm guessing that's why they got the praise, as PR is very important in this war where we rely on support from the west.
Information warfare is very important and to be honest russia is pretty good at it. They have shills in every country and try really hard to spread their false narratives. So every win on the information front is valueable for Ukraine. And everything about Snake Island was definitely a win.
Divinate_ME t1_iy06et0 wrote
What is the difference between war PR and propaganda?
SalviaPlug t1_iy1y2tl wrote
PR is what your side does, propaganda is what the other side does.
passatigi t1_iy0k93x wrote
Let's look at the definitions first.
PR: the activity of providing the public with information about your organization so that people have a positive idea of the organization's work.
Propaganda: information, ideas, opinions, or images, often only giving one part of an argument, that are broadcast, published, or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions.
Not much difference. Isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.
Imagine your daughter/your relative's daughter calling you and saying that she is considering going to a drug party with people she doesn't know very well. Would you care to tell her that it might be a ton of fun, if that means she might go there even after hearing your counter-arguments about how dangerous it is? Or would you only say whatever it takes to make her not go there because you are worried about her safety? Probably the latter. And that's straight up propaganda on a small scale. But it's done for the greater good. Even though there is a significant chance that if she'd go, she'd actually have a great time.
And during wartime, propaganda is pretty much mandatory. There is no way around it. You don't want your population to be demoralized. Even more so your soldiers. They need some things they can cheer about and they always need hope. If people fall into despair during such time it's very bad for them.
Let's take Ghost of Kyiv as an example. Even if mostly a myth, it wasn't really some harmful disimformation that lead to anything bad. It was a morale booster. And boosting morale of people on the right side of the conflict is ultimately a good thing.
Zantej t1_iy196lm wrote
Exactly. I think the nuance a lot of people can't handle is that the truth isn't always right for every situation. Sometimes a little lie for the right reasons is a good thing.
warrkrack t1_ixzb1ia wrote
I'm not saying they did anything wrong by surrendering. I just don't get how they can be both heroes for not surrendering... and also surrendering without a fight.
Ithalan t1_ixzx28p wrote
they had no way of knowing if the the Russians would even accept a surrender after they gave the response they did. They might not have fought to their death, but putting their own survival in question at all simply to make a symbolic gesture that the rest of their country could rally around is still a huge deal.
passatigi t1_ixzc2uf wrote
My guess is that it's because they didn't surrender right away even though it could lead to their immediate deaths. And it was good PR which is important. Basically what I explained in details in the comment above.
One desn't necessarily has to die to become a hero.
But I see your point.
warrkrack t1_ixzc9lt wrote
yeah I know you don't need to die to be a hero. but I figure people who are heroes for not surrendering would also... not surrender. or at least put up some fight. they said fuck off... then surrendered. without fighting.
FingerDrinker t1_ixzlzgw wrote
Why don’t you go show em how it’s done then?
killerbeeman t1_ixyqu0g wrote
Yes, not surrendering is extremely heroic.
Subject-Cheetah802 t1_ixzt6ix wrote
What they said also cemented their heroism forever. Those boys will be gettin blowies till they die for that move! And boy do they deserve em! When they told the warship to f itself I was no longer worried about Ukraine in the long run because their people have souls made from fire with bravery unending. Absolute giga chads! Baddest mfrs around right there.
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warrkrack t1_ixysnux wrote
but they surrendred without a fight? i dont get it.
killerbeeman t1_ixyucgb wrote
I thought they were launching missiles knowing the were out numbered and could lead to their death. Don’t know much about the specifics of their capture.
warrkrack t1_ixyvi76 wrote
I mean... if they put up a fight I would think there would be at least 1 casualty... or if they didn't surrender I would expect there to be less than 100% captured?
BasvanS t1_ixztsz5 wrote
Why do you insist on a need for casualties?
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warrkrack t1_iy1zsbf wrote
i dont need casualites. and im not saying they did anything wrong by surrendring. i just dont understand how they are heroes for not surredring... and at the same time they did surrender without a fight.
BasvanS t1_iy29mz6 wrote
They made a stand against an overwhelming force and gave hope to a nation under siege. Why do you assume there was no fight?
warrkrack t1_iy2bxh4 wrote
because there was no fight. they were all captured trying to flee the island
BasvanS t1_iy2dptw wrote
They didn’t do enough pew-pew and bleeding for your taste?
warrkrack t1_iy2fdib wrote
it's not a matter of taste. or what I want. like I said a few times. I don't think they did anything wrong by surrendering. it just makes 0 sence that they are heros for not surrendering... wile surrendering.
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Sinaaaa t1_ixzqmvf wrote
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EquanimityVibe t1_iy0ou7q wrote
I thought this happened months ago...?
Merz_Nation t1_iy1n4og wrote
Same
TheLepos t1_iy1qv42 wrote
Yeah, came here to say this...
TheLionFollowsMe t1_iy0frqm wrote
May they never have to pay for drinks again.
TestingHydra t1_iy0wmcx wrote
I thought I heard they were traded months ago? Or were only a few traded then and now all are back?
TheLepos t1_iy1qxra wrote
I thought this exchange happened like 3 months into the war...
Sinaaaa t1_ixzqi54 wrote
What legends!
Divinate_ME t1_iy068e0 wrote
From martyrs to heroes to prisoners to free men. What a journey.
FistingLube t1_iy0un7h wrote
I hope they are ok., we know how ruzzians treat prisoners. At least they are alive.
MaintenanceInternal t1_iy1i27u wrote
I thought this happened months ago.
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One-Turnover9984 t1_iy2z727 wrote
"You have balls. I like balls"
Scottie3000 t1_iy0w03h wrote
How can people who died after telling Russia “F@$k you!” be freed?
BobalowTheFirst t1_iy2b2ia wrote
Because they didn't, they surrendered immediately and the press made a good propaganda piece.
Scottie3000 t1_iy3rzao wrote
Shows what I get for taking internet chatter at face value.
richf2001 t1_iy5bfry wrote
Gonna need a source where it was reported they died. I haven't found one.
Scottie3000 t1_iy5c57x wrote
There were a swarm of memes such as this one at the time. Like I said, internet at face value without fact checking can get you.
HauptmannYamato t1_ixzfmll wrote
So they all surrendered without a fight? I thought after such a provocation the Russians would turn them to dust but props to them for not hurting anyone.
tizzlenomics t1_ixztd4a wrote
Russia get zero props in any of this
SalviaPlug t1_iy1y9pa wrote
We can acknowledge the enemy’s mercy without justifying their cause. Fuck Russia and Putin’s war machine, but I think the commenter is just acknowledging their restraint.
HauptmannYamato t1_iy3t2zn wrote
Yeah.. anyway
AdmirableYouth4208 t1_ixyhqgm wrote
Hell I thought they died.