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DoorHingesKill t1_j6eor4v wrote

Reply to comment by Mysterious-Lion-3577 in German chancellor says he won't send fighter jets to Ukraine by El-JJ

It would appear as if the Ukrainian deputy minister of foreign affairs and previously ambassador in Berlin disagrees with you, /u/Masterious-Lion-3577

> I have a creative proposal to our German friends. The Bundeswehr has 93 Tornado multirole combat aircraft that will be decommissioned soon & replaced by F-35. Though it’s an old jet fighter, but still very powerful. Why not to deliver these Tornados to Ukraine @Bundeskanzler?

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At another point he asked for F-16s, F-35s, Eurofighters, Tornados, French Rafales and Swedish Gripen jets.

Germany has two of those.

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Fettideluxe t1_j6fhzde wrote

He is a pure populist it's not worth to Listen to him

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CrimsonShrike t1_j6g7cb1 wrote

The German tornados are very old and kept around to carry nukes and a couple specialist roles.

Also that man is a dumbass who also asked for frigates

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fly_drich t1_j6gc2oi wrote

Whose nukes?

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lordqaz t1_j6gyl3v wrote

America, France, and the UK. They are able to be utilized by other NATO members if those three decide it is necessary.

>A number of NATO member countries contribute a dual-capable aircraft (DCA) capability to the Alliance. These aircraft are central to NATO’s nuclear deterrence mission and are available for nuclear roles at various levels of readiness. In their nuclear role, the aircraft are equipped to carry nuclear bombs in a conflict and personnel are trained accordingly.

[July 2022] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_50068.htm

>Currently, seven Allies voluntarily participate in the NATO nuclear mission by contributing DCA. As implied by its name, DCA serve two roles. The first is to provide conventional air power capabilities, such as air policing and combat support, on a day-to-day basis. The second is to operationally deploy nuclear weapons in a conflict, following a political decision by the NPG. DCA are also a visible and valuable instrument for strategic communications. In a crisis or conflict, DCA could be used to send deterrence signals about operational readiness or to demonstrate resolve.

[PDF February 2022] https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/2/pdf/220204-factsheet-nuclear-sharing-arrange.pdf

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HurryPast386 t1_j6hgern wrote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

> As of November 2009, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey are hosting U.S. nuclear weapons as part of NATO's nuclear sharing policy.

> There are 20 B61 bombs stored on the base for delivery by German PA-200 Tornado IDS bombers of the JaBoG 33 squadron. By 2024 Germany's Tornado IDS aircraft are due to be retired, and it is unclear what nuclear sharing role, if any, Germany will then retain.[3][17] In 2022, after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Germany announced that it would buy 35 F-35 jets to replace the Tornado in its nuclear sharing role.

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massada t1_j6fikxl wrote

I mean, if the spare parts for maintenance intervals don't exist, they might as well but a shitty RC controller on the flight stick and launch them off like cruise missiles. That's the real problem with these older planes. You live or die by parts availability. That's why the British navy got so hosed by the F35 delay. They were more or less out of harrier parts by the time the first F35B showed up.

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zomgbratto t1_j6g4wp1 wrote

It's not so simple. Fighters need trained ground crews to operate and pilots need to be trained in one. From what I have heard, Ukrainian pilots are currently training to fight in F-15s and F-16s. Training the Ukrainian Air Force to operate on yet another different fighter is going to take even more time.

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DoorHingesKill t1_j6hndji wrote

From what I heard Congress approved money for their training like half a year ago, not that they're being trained. It wasn't on request of the WH either, so I'm not entirely sure Biden jumped in on it back then.

Also hearing how long the US believes its gonna take till the Abrams are operational (including supply line and training for soldiers/engineers) I kinda have to doubt the whole "we planned it all a year in advance but just held back the actual hardware (e.g. fighter jets) for now."

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OldMork t1_j6gkfu9 wrote

Sweden have at least 20 Jas Gripen in storage, another 30 also in storage but in worse condition, could some of them be put in operative status again?

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jlaw54 t1_j6gv49n wrote

You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.

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