Also gen z is a smaller cohort than millennials. Gen z is moving into cities per a recent article that showed up on this sub. I turned 30 in 2020, and many of my millennial friends who were living in the city moved out to the suburbs - which is pretty typical for americans of that age thinking about schools, a yard for kids to play in etc.

In 2006 when gen x was reaching that stage of their lives more millennials were moving in to replace them because there were more 20yo millennials than 30yo gen xers. That math is now flipped.

There are no larger generations coming in the foreseeable future, and fewer commuters seems to be a permanent new norm. Cities in general are going to need to figure out how to be great places to raise kids (and be previewed as such). Seems obvious to me that it means safer streets and better public schools. Unfortunately that's kind of a new paradigm, and harder than just getting back to the way things were 10 years ago.

Thanks. This was very helpful!

Check out Media, Doylestown, Phoenixville, and West Chester if you want area suburbs where if you squint real hard at you can see parallels with charming European villages (although you may struggle a bit because European charm and 2 car garages are pretty much mutually exclusive).

EDIT: typo

Found this from a couple of years ago: https://billypenn.com/2021/03/29/west-philly-poop-study-fecal-matter-gentrification-development-research-temple-gauthier/

Stood out as quite strange

Thanks for the response. And I plan to ditch my car. A major factor in considering this move is that my car is close to the end of its useful life, but I really like my current state of not having car payments.

Thinking of moving into the city (33M, single, would like to sell my car and reverse commute 2x/week to work near a regional rail stop). I'm struggling to choose between two areas - E. Passyunk / Bella Vista or Clark Park area (Cedar Park / Spruce Hill). Gets pretty long winded below, TLDR What are your thoughts between those two options?

Here's what I've got comparing the two:

South Philly

-Seems very walkable (except for the huge suburban style Acme / CVS complex right in the middle)

-Seem to have more grocery options (including the Italian Market which is appealing to me)

-Lots of Mexican, Italian, and Vietnamese food

-Skews towards young families

-BSL access

-Not much green space or tree cover

-Area seems pretty psychotic about parking

-I would at least try to bike to Jefferson / Market East for my commute when possible

West Philly

-Lots of trees, green space, and Clark Park

-I run about a mile a day, and Woodlands cemetery seems perfect for that

-Lots of options for most kinds of food you can think of, especially Ethiopian and Halal

-Skews towards students, past about 42nd(?) it becomes more grad students and less undergrad

-Trolly access to the south, and El access to the north

-Seems more car friendly than E. Passyunk (wider streets, more gas stations, more hostile to pedestrians etc..)

-Neighbors collecting stool samples to prevent gentrification?

-Regional rail commute would start out of 30th street (I work on the Pennsylvania RR side of the network, making it slightly longer)

Both areas seem similar in terms of price. I've walked around both and they each seem relatively safe and pleasant - although I haven't been to either at night. I don't think I'd go wrong with either, but curios if you think I'm missing anything.

EDIT: added the part about wanting to not have a car

I live in those western burbs, and agree with everything you've said here.

But I think all of those problems are solved FAR more effectively by putting the budget for the KOP rail extension into accelerating reimagined regional rail, as well as making the investments necessary for successfully launching and then increasing frequency on the planned Amtrak line to Reading.

To get somewhere without any light pollution you'll have to go farther than a 2-3 hour drive.

https://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html#4/45.37/-96.33

Cherry springs is a good place within that drive range, but you can get darker if you go farther. You can also get much darker than the city somewhere much closer like French Creek state park, but you wont see the milky way there.

Agree that it's not really possible to commute from the city to fort Washington in 30min, and that Ambler is a very nice suburban town, and to visit in person before committing to anything.

I'd add that Conshohocken is another suburb that you could consider that is popular with your demographic. It has a slightly more (but not all that) urban feel compared to Ambler feeling more like a small town.

Another thing to consider with respect to the wage tax is that it's just one component of the cost of living, and it's worth looking at the whole picture before balking at the wage tax bill. Manayunk (another area you could consider) is a very similar area to Conshohocken in many ways, except Manayunk is in the Philadelphia city limits and Conchy is not. Rents for similar apartments in Manayunk happen to run $100-$200/month cheaper compared to Conchy. So if you're making around median income it's only a difference of whether you're paying that $100-200 to you landlord or to the municipality (and since property taxes are lower on average in Philly than most of the suburbs its really just taking a different route to the municipality in the end).