shanoshamanizum
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3x0hx wrote
Reply to comment by ratyoke in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
I would prefer that scenario too but they already know there is not enough people in that segment to bring back the old quality. They simply adapted to the changes of the system so we need a new business model to lure them into making it while also giving us a tool to quit the scheme if the promise is not met.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3paij wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Okay have a nice day :)
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3mn0r wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
You simply stop paying if it breaks. You lose the product the company loses 40-50% of potential revenue. For each operational year you reward the company.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3dndd wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
It's not about getting in cheaper. In fact the first down-payment will be equivalent of a mainstream product. It's the only way to sell premium products to customers with decreasing income. Rent to own can have many variations. The one presented here is designed specifically to reward longevity and to guarantee no planned obsolescence.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3ay8a wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Thanks! Can you direct me to an example?
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3a770 wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
After a negotiated period. Anywhere from 5 to 7 years for standard users and 7 to 10 years for enterprises.
Compare that to my last 2 laptops which failed after 1 to 3 years of use.
On a macro level this model slows down the production/consumption cycle at both ends by reintroducing maximum quality paid for in installments.
Great for the environment too.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja37mt4 wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
>If you are selling a product under its “value” with the idea that users will keep paying additional (on goodwill) after some period of time, you’ll find that users will just resell these products at high prices and buy another product at the “under valued” price.
Users are not paying on goodwill but upon inspection that the device is still functional. If it doesn't work then and only then they don't pay. Also if it's non-working they return it so they can't resell anything.
There is no under-valued price it just builds up with the longevity of the product. Failed promises failed payments. Unlike now where user damage saves the day every time.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja356v8 wrote
Reply to comment by Decumulate in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
On the surface it seems like a rent to own but the big difference is that the user is in control and rewards the company for fulfilling its promise. Warranties require you to prove that it's not a user damage while here the company needs to prove the product is still functional. It's warranties reversed with payments in the hand of the user not the company. These are not the same products sold via different model but rather a forgotten class on its own. Products with no planned obsolescence.
On the other hand companies regain their beefiest market from 10 years ago - the most reliable and most expensive machines which were rebranded into consumer goods with planned obsolescence and sold at a fraction of their prices back then.
Same happened to cars in the 90s , same happened to laptops in the post 2010s.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9zbq9z wrote
Reply to comment by phine-phurniture in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Europe. Here a decent laptop doesn't exist let alone under 500$ :D
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9z73yv wrote
Reply to comment by phine-phurniture in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
>Planned obsolescence is mostly about greed
Unfortunately it's about decreasing purchasing power. They simply can't sell premium machines en mass like 10 years ago unless they go for new models and installments. We are still buying laptops that are 10-12 year old and that tells the whole story.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9yrlg0 wrote
Reply to comment by lllorrr in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
We are talking about 5-7 year cycles. My last 2 laptops failed in less than 3 years beyond warranty and repairability. A socketed CPU can easily last 5 years today.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9yr6sl wrote
Reply to comment by my-final-bellyache in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
And most importantly with a user feedback loop based on longevity :)
shanoshamanizum t1_j9ypsho wrote
Reply to comment by termanatorx in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by [deleted]
It's evolving as we speak and as we discover corner cases.
shanoshamanizum t1_j9yobst wrote
Reply to comment by termanatorx in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by [deleted]
The core idea is to have the user rewarding the producer not the other way around. The user has no incentive to break it or fake it because it will get returned to the producer. If it's truly broken both sides lose - the user loses the product, the producer loses potential 40-50% profit over the next 4-5 years.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9ykul3 wrote
Reply to comment by Sad-Corner-9972 in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
>Very mixed feelings about subscription model to get long term durability. Kind of like buying an extended warranty (full of fine print weasel words).
Rather a user feedback loop. Each time you can decide to scrap the deal or not. Unlike now where we have no feedback loop to incentivize producers.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9yknua wrote
Reply to comment by Initialised in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
>unless it’s physical damage
shanoshamanizum t1_j9ykf86 wrote
Reply to comment by Willing_Signature279 in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by [deleted]
Still there is no incentive and feedback loop which is the most important part of the model.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9ycfvp wrote
Reply to comment by Initialised in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Leasing here doesn't work that way. You get a leasing on the money not on the laptop. If the laptop is dead you still owe the money to a financial institution.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9y747x wrote
Reply to comment by Initialised in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Not in Europe.
shanoshamanizum t1_j9y4zcd wrote
Reply to comment by Blueporch in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by [deleted]
It's all about having one more option really. Planned obsolescence is a fairly recent trend.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9y3l6m wrote
Reply to comment by Nakotadinzeo in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
It's quite easy. They have functional lists with 100 points marked. You have to agree to it at time of purchase.
shanoshamanizum t1_j9y3htq wrote
Reply to comment by Blueporch in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by [deleted]
Modularity is part of making it last.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9y23oj wrote
Reply to comment by Dry-Influence9 in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Not in Europe, here you have to prove it's not user damaged but you can't open it first. With the lease and insurance model it might still end up as "user-damaged".
shanoshamanizum OP t1_j9y1ubg wrote
Reply to comment by Initialised in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
Not really because when the product fails the responsibility changes from the user proving it's not user damaged to the company proving it's still working to get next payment.
shanoshamanizum OP t1_ja3y77i wrote
Reply to comment by ratyoke in A platform for products with no planned obsolescence by shanoshamanizum
It's all about the principle. The details can be tweaked until it works for the targeted audience. I imagine it as follows:
Year 2: the laptop is broken
The dealer: it's user damage
Me: Then I don't pay
I lose the product, they lose 50% in potential revenue.
If they want they can fix it and I will continue the payments.
Right now warranties don't give me that. I pay 100% in advance and pray. Eventually everything expensive ends up as "user damage" with no way for me to prove it's not. In the case of lease it's the same thing - even if the device is broken if it's considered user damage I have to continue paying. I understand insurance solves that but it doesn't incentivize the producer to make lasting products and as importantly doesn't give the user control in the process.