I appreciate your honest comment. I went through similar experiences and it was a red pill for me. Especially combined with finding "detail" matched more and more the better I was able to tweak the headphones with EQ.

What do you think that post effects are manipulating besides timing based ones like reverb/delay?

I see what you are getting at but there is no true equivalent to reverb/delay in the physical behavior of resonances in headphones. Resonances affect the FR in an exact 1:1 fashion to the point that one can be calculated from the other.

A resonance at a certain frequency causes a peak at that same frequency. Or does the peak cause the resonance? I dunno, they are inseparable.

For any earphone with sufficiently low distortion (any quality one worth considering at any price) it is not an issue. Beyond that the micro detail is just smaller peaks and dips in FR.

I wouldn't say it's so much a bias towards new products but moreso the current state of the market including newer products. Today we have our pick between Dusk , Variations and the OG B2. I guess a lot of people don't see a reason to pay more than those for what can be achieved with a simple EQ tweak (if they prefer less bass on variations for example or less treble on B2). Personally, I would never consider the S8.

I have the Blessing 2 Dusk and if there is any headphone in existence that even sounds just as good without any EQ let alone better I would be shocked.

Budget IEMs are better than TOTL headphones except for soundstage width.

They are not natural sounding. They are very dark, especially if you insert them as deep as they are supposed to be which not all people who measured them and made graphs for us have done.

When I had an ER2SE it required a 10 dB boost of both bass and treble. Luckily it has very low distortion and can take EQ like a champ.

With properly deep insertion my ER2SE was even darker than Oratory's and required a 10 dB treble hump.

I remember Arya being even wider but I didn't own both at the same time and I may be wrong.

Or it could be that I was so wrapped up in chasing the soundstage at the time I had the Arya and by the time I got the HD 800 I had come down to earth a bit and wasn't fooled as easily anymore.

I don't find it fake and forced at all though. It is just about 1 inch wider for me on each side than 6XX or IEMs (which are all the same width as each other and the same as 6XX lol) but seems to respond better to DSP or crossfeed to bring the sound forward in a slightly more speaker-like way.

Should be the same as any speakers except that the correct distance to sit from them will vary with the width they are placed apart.

The only decent speakers I have listened to in recent years are my friend's studio monitors and I am not that blown away by the soundstage. It just sounds like an arc of sound placed 3 feet in front of me instead of an arc of sound right in front of my face (but a similar angular size) with HD-800 + Stereo convolver.

So you mean physical shape/construction? That's what makes them so comfortable and convenient. That was a game changer for me. I never want bulky or heavy shells or thick nozzles ever again.

Generic in what way?

The longevity thing is very unfortunate though I have personally not had any problem with my Chus. My only point really is that if the Chus blew their budget on premium feel then of course a version with the same premium feel and added detachable cable is going to cost more.

I don't even like the premium feel. Like I appreciate how it looks and feels but as soon as I pick it up (in any way besides grabing the 2 shells first and being careful to keep them apart which is something I don't want to do because to me a $20 IEM is about convenience, not being fussy) and feel the little heavy weights swinging around and banging together I don't like it compared to how I can just yank my Quarks any which way and throw them around.

But I do notice the metal build while I am wearing it. Yet another reason I prefer the Quarks lol. But if the Chu was what I wanted in sound and feel yet I desired a detachable cable I wouldn't hesitate on the Lan. I don't know who exactly that is for but it is somebody.

What is it that you don't like about Waners? And what is stopping you from trying Quarks? If it is the USB C then I totally understand.

If you like your Waner for $14 then I am happy for you. It is still a plastic build, which is fine but it's cheaper.

But if somebody really likes their Chu but wants a detachable cable...they can pay $40. Everybody's happy.

$20 for premium feel is not stupid. If you appreciate premium feel even a small amount it's worth it. If not, Waner. Once again, everyone is happy.

I could be complaining that the Lan is over twice the price of my Quarks and is heavy/ bulky/uncomfortable and sounds worse (and in fact I will when the Jiu is released) But instead I am being happy with my Quarks and if for whatever reason someone else wants the Lan then good for them.

$13 does not say anything. That is the retail price of the tips because they are a retail product. They do not cost moondrop $13.

It seems your issue with my post is that I did not acknowledge where you said:

>you can argue the spring tips themselves were worth $13

Well I read that and I ignored it because I would not argue that the spring tips are worth $13 because they are not. They are worth pennies to Moondrop. If they drop the spring tips they still have to provide some other tips and and they are not left with a product they can sell for $7 or add a detachable cable for $13 more.

I'm still not sure what you are complaining about. Lots of people said the Chu is bright. Lots of people complained about the non-detachable cable. This addresses both. Of course it's going to cost more. Salnotes has cheap plastic build quality and (to me) sounds far inferior than the Chu.

But none of this personally matters to me because I am all about the Quarks DSP. If they gave it a slight upgrade in sound and/or quality of life for double the price I'd be all over it.

You answered your own questions. Less treble and detachable cable. Updated tuning or not, a Chu with detachable cable would have been more expensive. They could have called it a Chu MKII or they could call it a Lan. Who cares?

The diminishing returns now start with Quarks DSP lol.

Long cables are snake oil. I recline just fine with a 6 inch cable.

I lean pretty hard to the objective side and I've listened to people who are more extreme and I have literally never heard anyone disagree with what you said.

I am at endgame except for new products. Not interested in anything currently existing but waiting to see if better buys than what I have come out.

worst meme monday attempt ever

and I don't even like HD 600

Why do you call it a $20 IEM as if it is an insult? That just makes it all the more groundbreaking. It is an extreme revolution in price/performance as it is better than the vast majority of IEMs including ones that are 100x the price.

What kind of thing are you looking for to qualify as "groundbreaking"?

No need to cope. I've got my end game IEM until something better eventually comes for $20.

The noise floor doesn't matter when you are listening to music. It is a replacement for high end. Now I can get rid of my Dusk, have a much more stable/comfortable fit and never worry about breaking my fragile $330 IEM.