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spambearpig t1_jaq9dbl wrote

You can say these are upgradable, but the best you can buy now isn’t very good. If I got one of these brand-new, I would want to immediately upgrade it to have a better display and then find they don’t sell one.

This is an average laptop at best. I don’t think you will want to spend money upgrading it as time goes by.

The only thing about it is not absolutely bog standard is the price.

Then, when one day this bog standard laptop becomes definitely shit, you will be able to spend 2 laptops worth of money to return it to bog standard again.

Nice idea, crap as a real choice for most computer users. You are buying an idea that won’t really work out.

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jaqs644 wrote

Interesting take. I do photo and video editing on mine…

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ldeveraux t1_jar36ja wrote

There can be future updates you know. I can only hope they would make future advancements that you can swap in.

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spambearpig t1_jar6qp6 wrote

Yeah we can hope but I sure don’t predict that’ll be the case. In the last 4 years Apple have shown than an integrated chipset outpeforms a collection of CPU, RAM and graphics all hooked to a motherboard. So just for example, if the futute of laptops is integrated chips then this sucker is done for. Done. Redundant. And that’s just 1 thing that might change beyond their ability to keep up.

I’m not against the notion but I really don’t think it’s an effective idea in the real world.

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ldeveraux t1_jar9pe1 wrote

Apple convinced people they want to spend too much money for a name. Sure their products are good, they aren't THAT good.

Regardless, this is designed to be a modular product, so I'd expect it to remain that way as long as Framework is viable. Just like people will keep buying the latest iPhone year after year with little improvement over the last model, people will upgrade their laptops if it's available.

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Walkop t1_jargf4b wrote

They are that good. The M1/2 are no joke. But they're not magic sauce, they're incredibly expensive to make because they are massive dies on the most expensive node you can get, which gets exponentially more expensive the larger you go.

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ldeveraux t1_jarglcy wrote

OK I didn't realize I was talking to a fanboy, nevermind.

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Walkop t1_jarlvhx wrote

I don't own a single Apple product and I never will , at this point. But you can't deny the facts, M1/2 are great designs. They're just ludicrously expensive and will never see the light of day in a product that isn't thousands of dollars. Not the full die, at least.

They also aren't meant to compete with AMD and Intel and the majority of cases. They never will be able to.

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ldeveraux t1_jarnddc wrote

you've never owned an Apple product but you're telling me the M1 and M2 are the tops.

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Walkop t1_jasclmz wrote

I'm telling you that they're incredible performers for what they are. That's true. The amount of performance they get for the power draw is very, very good. There's been little competition on release. Definitely nothing remotely close in an APU. It's a very wide chip that gets a very high IPC because it has so much die allocated to things that give it more efficiency.

Most people who praise it, though, seem to think you could put that chip into a much cheaper device that's non Apple and it'd still be affordable, and that they've developed some magic sauce that makes it Apple-tax worthy. It's NOT that. It's a very expensive to make, high end chip. So it goes into very expensive products that happen to have the "Apple tax".

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ldeveraux t1_jasezou wrote

I don't disagree. I thought we were talking about the Framework, no?

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Walkop t1_jarfvlx wrote

Apple didn't convince anyone of anything. The only reason that the M series chips are good is because they are ludicrously expensive to produce, and a massive die. It's not because they broke some boundary.

The M1 Max is the size of an AMD 5950X, and a 30 series GPU PUT TOGETHER. It's not some Apple magic sauce. It is on the most advanced node you can get manufacturing wise, it is incredibly large, which means it is ludicrously expensive to make. The only reason it works is because it's in an Apple device that is integrated top to bottom. It would never work for an off-the-shelf component. And it would also never work in a cheap device.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very well performing, very efficient chip. But it's that way because it's incredibly expensive to make, more so than any dedicated desktop CPU on the market right now, with the most advanced manufacturing.

To top it all off, there's no reason that a chip like this could not be socketed. It could easily be designed that way. If they wanted to, which they obviously do not.

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