Submitted by crushed-tomatoes t3_y6kqm9 in BuyItForLife
Just curious if the products and brands recommended here are based solely on personal experience/brand circlejerking. Doesn't matter either way, it's just something I was thinking about. It's really hard to try to judge quality based on online recommendations online. Some data backing it up would be nice.
if there are studies they would probably use the term planned obsolescence
Not sure I agree with that. Planned obsolescence leans heavily (at least implicitly) towards a deliberate strategy - which also impacts both budget and premium products. OP’s question sounds broader to include products built with the genuine intention of lasting a long time.
oh, actually yeah, you're right.
That said, planned obsolescence research would be an interesting read in itself! I just learned it is slightly broader and includes built-in obsolescence (I guess products that aren’t deliberately made to break, but also clearly made for the very short term?)
Planned Obsolescence fuels consumerism and capitalism. Oh, and fucks up the environment
Yep, pretty much!
Higher quality products tend to last longer because they are often easier to service, maintain or repair. Lower quality products are generally manufactuted in ways that makes repairing or servicing very hard and alot of times destructive.
i'm pretty sure you've got an equal measure of brand loyalists and people who have bought things that lasted forever that like to recommend them to others. for example, I stumbled upon some rainboots from walmart (idk the brand) that I got probably 15 years ago that I will sing the praises of forever (I bought them because they were cheap and plain), but I am also a brand loyalist for some items.
I feel like if someone is willing to give a testimonial years after owning something, it's a better review than someone who just bought an item online and might not have even used it much yet. you get a lot of that online.
Agreed. I would also like to add when buying online I look at the one star reviews. Most of the five star reviews are for fast shipping, good customer service, and the item being what they expected it to be.
One star reviews gives you a good picture of everything that could go wrong and then you decide if you’re ok with that.
Reading the low reviews is also good because it lets you know if it's a problem with the product or a problem with the user
Studies....
It'd be super hard because comparatively study "everything" expensive suits might (and actually do) wear more than cheap but shoes are another matter...so you'd have to get super specific, which makes actual studies nearly impossible.
You'd have to get hyper specific since things change with time and even vary greatly within a category: "Brown Moc Toe Leather boots sold between the years of 2018-2020", even then if they have different sole material you'd get strange results if a cheaper boot used a harder sole.
You have to have a year range because materials and techniques change over time so some items could, in theory, get more durable because of modern materials...on the other side corner cutting to reduce price seems to always rise so newer items might not last the same. You can't just say "boots" because comparing Mac toes, to full cut, too cap toe, could throw things off.
I feel like there’s a business opportunity here…
Consumer reports does product testing. There are a bunch of other organizations that test specific types of items
No studies, but the kinds of responses I’ve found most helpful are the ones from folks who have experience with particular products over the longterm — like, this is the place I go to figure out which Pyrex to buy if I need one that is over or freezer safe, or to check to see if Brand xyz is still putting out quality goods (many have changed their materials or moved their production in the recent past and quality may have suffered to a point where an item you might assume is BIFL isn’t anymore).
No, there are no studies to tell you that snapon tools will be better than the cheapest garbage you can get on amazon. Feel free to roll those dice as you see fit.
Project farm on YouTube does exactly this.
Not arguing with you, but OP is looking for studies and specifically states he's not looking for "online recommendations". I have my own youtube channel where I explain a few things here and there but I'm certainly not a double blind peer reviewed data point.
There is testing done on such things, they just aren't scientific-peer-reviewed studies... which isn't as much of a step down as it may sound like (or necessarily at all for that matter).
Myth busters was popular and widely considered a good source of testing things... but they actually fell into the same boat of not being I'm the format of scientific-peer-reviewed studies.
Anyway though... on the topic of Snap-On, testing, and circle-jerking, the general consensus of those that test multiple different brands against each other is typically that on average Snap-On is only slightly better than many brands of "average" grade tools... but those tools tend to be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than them, and so snap-on tools are just generally not a good value.
I think it depends on what you mean by "average". I intentionally compared it to Amazon chinesium. If you want to compare it to Gear Wrench then sure, snapon is a smidgen better but much pricier.
Ah fair enough, I actually have some cheap "chinesium" tools (think $20 for a big set) I keep as spare in my trunk and they work for that purpose where they are just basic tools for if something goes wrong, but they aren't being used night and day in a shop.
I know those aren't going to compare to any decent brand, but that doesn't bother me for as rarely as they see use.
For more normal use I have a smattering of whatever I could find that was decent.
I bought some snap on metric combination spanners when I was an 18 year old apprentice and I still use them in industry every day 36 years later. I've snapped precisely one of them by using a pipe over it as leverage. The snap on rep still exchanged it without quibble. I've changed the innards of my 3/8 ratchet twice, again FOC. I think a quality brand like snap on, beta or teng that comes with a lifetime warranty is BIFL for sure.
As regards white goods etc, efficiency improvements tend to rule out buying for life and I look for decent longevity and reliability instead...
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Block and concrete walls outlast wood walls.
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The data you seek will not be found. What you should do in future is ask:
I want a XXX product.
My budget is $500.
Then be open minded. Maybe what you want can be had for $300, the "budget counterpart". Or maybe you are told there is not BIFL version at that budget.
Best example of this is office chairs. So many people stomp in here and want a $300 office chair. Sorry, but that's not a thing....you want it to be a thing....but its not. And no matter how nicely you state it, you are Hitler. BIFL office chairs start at $1000. Then the survivorship bias crowd enters the chat. Then the "I got one on craisglist for $25" crowd enters the chat. It gets ugly real quick. But some BIFL stuff has a price floor....you aren't getting goodyear welted dress shoes for under $100...sorry, not sorry.
Who would do the study? Probably the company or a competitor, highly doubt there’s something I’d trust for long term durability
1tMySpecial1nterest t1_ispuf6r wrote
I’m currently studying this for clothes. There are some studies from dry cleaners.
I’m also researching what makes quality construction. For example, Corduroy is more durable the less number of wales per square inch. 10-12 is normal.
I’m also doing my own experiment comparing boots’ longevity and price. (Not done yet)
If you are interested in studies for specific brands, it would be good to look for brands that do stress tests for their products. They will simulate wear and tear by applying repetitive motions that mimic normal use. For example, they will shine bright lights on a product to see how quickly the color fades. This allows them to test their quality without waiting a lifetime. There are also YouTube channels you might like that do these sorts of experiments with popular brands.
That being said, this sub is very diverse:
Most people respond with testimonials. They will tell you what product they bought and how long they have had it.
Some people circle jerk certain brands.
Some people tell you what materials or construction to look for without giving a brand. For example, people often recommend latex mattresses without stating a specific brand.
Some people recommend brands with lifetime warranties.
There is always one person who gives the obligatory, “there is no __ that is buy it for life,” comment.
There is always a person who recommends buying Walmart brand.
There is always a person who mocks the person’s request saying they are dumb for wanting BIFL or that the people of this sub need to learn about value.
In summary, we have all kinds of people here.