It is sad but I am all for it.

Death with dignity... we should be just as humane with people as we are with our pets.

This is the kind and ethical way to lead. Death and dying doesn't have to be so awful for interminably ill patients. And those who help their loved ones leave according to their own wishes should not be at risk of criminal action.

https://ct-n.com/CTNplayer.asp?livestream=3

Both the pro-aid in dying and anti-aid in dying press conferences can be watched on this feed if anyone is bored, just scrobble back in the line. After watching both I cannot fathom how this bill has not been passed. Yet another “my religion matters more than your pain” issue.

Far past time. This is one of those things that's actually done but never talked about. Keeping somebody "alive" just because we can is cruel. If you don't already have an end-of-life directive, GET one.

Awesome. I won't have to use my S&W when the time comes!

But what about my grandmaster plan to go skydiving without a parachute, and crash into the local elementary school pickup line, where Little Billy will say “look mommy, that man is made of strawberry jam!” And he’ll eat my mushy insides before being whisked away, never to be seen again…..

I think it should be legal in all states.

But only to those who have a diagnosed terminal illness or incurable chronic pain.

Good, who the hell wants to suffer so bad you beg for death. That’s what’s cruel.

People should be aware this is rapidly becoming a culture war issue. This is largely because 1) an associated press bombshell article about Canada's medical assistance in dying program (MAID) and 2) American conservatives reorienting their arguments about pro-life to focus on this issue.

The gist of the pro argument is it is only humane to allow people to choose when to die. We know the vast majority of a person's lifetime medical expenses will occur within 90 days of their death. We know medical debt is the main reason people declare bankruptcy. We know there's nothing stopping people from killing themselves in less humane ways (as referenced in this article). The pro argument is an appeal to common decency and practicality.

The gist of the anti argument is these policies innately corrupt medical institutions that are supposed to be stalwart advocates for your right to life. After the initial report in August 2022, there have been a string of anecdotal stories from elderly or disabled people in Canada who had some totally survivable illness and were prescribed MAID. This has extended to individuals who believe they were disliked by medical staff and it would be more convenient to simply "assist" their death. The anti argument is a moral argument that you can't trust institutions with this kind of irreversible power.

Personally, I was pretty convinced of the pro argument up until these reports. The thing that's been really disturbing is seeing the Tik Tok trend of kids with depression talking about how they can't wait to turn 18 so they can apply for MAID. I really don't know what to do with that.

Sharing this because I thought people might relate to the shift in views I personally experienced over the past few months.

Good reason to move there

> Personally, I was pretty convinced of the pro argument up until these reports. The thing that's been really disturbing is seeing the Tik Tok trend of kids with depression talking about how they can't wait to turn 18 so they can apply for MAID. I really don't know what to do with that.

Not much. No medical practitioner worth their license would ever entertain the idea of somebody not even old enough to buy a can of PBR to undergo assisted suicide.

This is so important.

I want as much dignity as I can keep when my time comes.

I do not want to saddle my family with crushing debt generated in my last few weeks of life.

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I'd like to believe no medical practitioner would approve a guy for assisted suicide because of "hearing loss" but that's the world we're in.

It’s absolutely barbaric to force someone with a terminal illness to suffer when we have the technology to let them decide they want to go peacefully. I’m hopeful about this bill.

FINALLY!

Hospital employee here: for the love of god let people die with dignity.

Good. Right. Just. Humane. I hope I have this option should the need arise.

Yes! And we continue to be the best state ever!

We better not pull a Canada. But this is alright I guess

>People should be aware this is rapidly becoming a culture war issue. This is largely because 1) an associated press bombshell article about Canada's medical assistance in dying program (MAID) and 2) American conservatives reorienting their arguments about pro-life to focus on this issue.... > >The gist of the pro argument is it is only humane to allow people to choose when to die. We know the vast majority of a person's lifetime medical expenses will occur within 90 days of their death. We know medical debt is the main reason people declare bankruptcy.

>The gist of the anti argument is these policies innately corrupt medical institutions that are supposed to be stalwart advocates for your right to life.

Conservatives are turning this into a culture war because of the part that I have placed in bold.

The stated gist of the anti-argument is the alleged corruption of medical doctoring. That's a pretext. I'm sure that there are some religious types and literal adherents of the Hippocratic Oath that are serious, but in the halls of government, this is coming from the health care lobby and drug companies and their lapdog Republicans.

I've definitely talked to people with tinnitus who said that it was driving them slowly insane and making them want to die.

In fact I recall that people with tinnitus have a higher rate of suicide.

There used to be a society out of new Canaan for assisted suicide for those with severe ailments, cancer, or other end of life diagnosis’s. Can’t remember the name, texted a coworker to find it. Will update if they text me back

I used to be for medically assisted suicide until I read the take of a disability rights activist: “there are so many who are happy to expend efforts in helping us die but not in enabling us to live.” In an ideal system, medical aid in dying is a very reasonable policy. But the US has never been an ideal system. And while I’m sure there are many who will swear up and down that it will only be used in those who have no chance of survival or who face a slow and painful death, the fact of the matter is that people who have been the victims of the American medical system at various points in history give plenty of reason to doubt that that is how things will happen in practice.

If you’ve never been the victim of willful malpractice and abuse by the medical system, it can be hard to fathom how people could be coerced to choose to die. but there are countless experiences of neglect and abuse that have been shared by those with disabilities, chronic illness, and mental illness as well as those who are minorities or are fat. many people with disabilities or mental illnesses already lack advocates in medical spaces and tend to have smaller support systems—this means a greater likelihood of being isolated if they are hospitalized. There are lots of ways nurses and doctors can impose casual cruelty on a patient to push them towards hopelessness—just one example being “missing” the vein a dozen times when placing an IV or constantly making comments about how alone, or worthless, or costly or wasteful a patient is, or placing their phone/computer/connection to the outside world out of their reach. It’s easy to say “oh that’s not so bad” but when you are a trapped audience dependent on someone else for survival in an already emotionally and mentally fragile state (which is inherent in being hospitalized) that behavior can have immense psychological consequences and lead someone to choose to die who otherwise might not have. While the vast majority of medical personnel would never fathom doing this purposefully, it takes very few people with deep prejudices and hatred to do immense harm. Further because of the norms of the medical field, it’s very possible for neglect to be imposed without the medical practitioner being aware that they are doing it. Not to mention the gatekeeping of healthcare due to insurance gouging and costs. Why are we accepting “people should be able to choose to die so they don’t saddle their relatives with debt” as an acceptable view point? Why are we not demanding that medical care be made more accessible so that no one has to choose between debt and death?

Until we give people real practical options for survival—until we make sure that the disabled can earn a reasonable stable living, and that people won’t risk homelessness and bankruptcy by choosing to get all the medical care they would need to survive—and until we address the rampant casual abuse that occurs within the medical field, medical aid in dying is just another tool for coercion, abuse, and cruelty of those who are already neglected by the medical field.

It's far less sad than watching a family member die slowly in unrelenting pain or lose their mind to Alzheimer's and hate every minute of it reliving that loss of mental capacity over and over and over again.

My mother had alzheimer's. Every time I saw her, multiple times she would beg for a gun with two bullets (in case one mother's misfires) because she had forgotten that she had begged me to help her commit suicide every single previous time. This went on for almost a decade before she lost her ability to speak and was basically just an angry, violent vegetable.

I hope I live in a world where one day a person can decide to humanely end their life without having to tell anyone their private reasons. Because it's no one else's business, nor choice.

Why not for any other medical reason that isn't any of your business?

Finally a way to escape eversource

> I do not want to saddle my family with crushing debt generated in my last few weeks of life.

I am shocked at the readiness with which people accept this train of thought, as if the debt is a natural inevitability. It’s a false dichotomy—we should be eliminating medical debt entirely and thus eliminating that dilemma. It is a sign that we really live in a dystopia that people have resigned themselves to medical debt and found it easier to just kill people rather than reform medical care in the US.

Because I don’t think you should commit suicide unless you’re in chronic pain or have a terminal illness.

What I think and believe doesn’t magically warp reality.

So it doesn’t really matter.

Define pain please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_pain

Hemlock society

I’m all for reform, vote accordingly.

How does that help someone, right this instant?

I do not think it’s a false dichotomy. That implies I could choose to have US medicine reform and choose not to.

And while some people actually do advocate killing others, I’m not. I’m speaking for myself, in a situation where survival beyond days is impossible but hospitals will still incur huge charges. And I’m also not talking about “no heroic measures”.

I live in a world where I would prefer a perfectly healthy person who wants to end their life gets treatment for their mental health rather than assisted suicide

So this would exclude those with dementia or Alzheimer’s because the illness usually has progressed to the point that it’s observable by them, their family, and doctors. Because it affects their ability to think and process information a long with their behavior…I would imagine they would not be competent to make the decision.

What about someone that in old age declines like loosing the ability to walk or vision, and no longer can take care of themselves (like dress themselves, clean themselves after the bathroom and bath), they wouldn’t be able to get assistance? What about someone with RA or tinnitus? What about someone that’s hella old, all their friends are dead along with their spouse, physically are declining and wishes to pass on which their family knows about and supports?

What about someone young that finds out they will 100 percent develop a terminal illness and wishes to pass on before symptoms appear?

So conservatives are against it because they want dying people to run up a bunch of medical bills before they die? Sorry I don’t understand

Just to be clear the original response to my concern was "no medical professional would approve such a death" and we have effortlessly transitioned to "yes a medical professional would approve of such a death and it's none of your business."

Based on the last time it was proposed this legislation would require either two or three verbal commitments for the patient after thorough review of their mental health and in different time periods (there's a set amount of time they must wait before the process can even continue upon application). Most importantly a patient needs a diagnosis of a terminal illness with professionally diagnosed six months or less to live before they're even allowed to apply, significantly more strict than Canada's. Once the medication is administered the patient can choose not to take it; in Oregon, only 60% of people who complete the application process end up ending their lives.

Tiktok is gonna Tiktok, as a formerly suicidal teen I can imagine making a similar post when I was younger. I'm concerned for the kids but I'm not going to let them determine my views on policy without doing more research. And, as with any other system, the possibility of abuse in my view is miniscule compared to the overall benefits provided to people in pain. I can't answer for Canada but after reading the fascinating article you linked I am confident this negative response will make their policies more of an exception than the rule.

Multiple states already allow this, and I don't see why this is even an issue: if you're terminally ill, there's no legitimate reason to not let you leave this world with your dignity intact as opposed to being hooked to a machine + tied to a bed for 6 extra months.

my only issue with euthanasia / assisted suicide (and for the US it's not an issue, really) is when the government gets involved and starts pushing it on people deemed too expensive to treat.

A medical professional shouldn't even be required. It's a personal decision that should not require the approval of anyone else.

Please yes

I will add that a lot of old people that when they come to the point in which they no longer live independently on their own, do not want to spend their money and wealth they want to pass on independent/assisted living or convalescent home. Those places are hella expensive. In my experience, it’s taken their family members to have many conversations to convince them that they (their family) don’t need their wealth and that they should spend it on living at a place in which they can get the care they need and live comfortably. The older person takes even more convincing if their kids or grandkids wish to pay for their independent/assisted living or convalescent home. Add in the fact, no one wants to need to get help bathing or wiping. No one wants to move out of their home and give up the freedom they had their entire adult lives. It sucks.

I could see an older person trying to get a diagnosis to get dying assistance to avoid having to go to a living facility or home. To be honest I probably would.

No, seems you did understand

I just wish it was like the Swiss laws.

Please please please let this happen.

Only if there is strictly regulated pricing and price caps. Hospitals will exploit billing to extract all wealth of any remaining estate.

I mean, the US government kinda does deem people too expensive to treat every time medical treatments are denied to Medicare/Medicaid patients.

Smart money says this will never pass. Unfortunately there is too much money to be made by keeping people alive as long as possible. Whether it is nursing homes or healthcare, the money calls the shots.

This is heart wrenching. I’m so sorry you and your mother had to go through this. It would be nice if the politicians actually did what their constituents want.

Medical debt is a three for one for the billionaire class.

Make money treating you, make money keeping you in the workforce, make money keeping your kids in the workforce.

A case of cancer or a catastrophic injury quickly turns into generational poverty, in the land of the free.

And you're not at all concerned about the dozens of stories of disabled people who need tremendous care being pressured to accept MAID to make other people's lives easier?

Yes we should all pressure our love ones to die so we get the cash money yayyyy. Great idea /s.

What an absolutely bonkers take. Did you study straw manning at school?

True, but it's not at the levels of "became the 6th highest cause of death after being legalized" yet.

Full disclosure, I'm a vet and the Canadian version of the VA basically telling vets with PTSD to kill themselves because they were too expensive to treat makes me a biiiiiiiit biased. You can't just hand a loaded gun to someone who is suicidal / depressed and tell them it's the only way out.

Why would they want that? I’m dense.

So if my parents die from cancer and rack up medical debt as they’re going out, am I expected to pay it off?

Not you personally, but their estate will need to pay outstanding bills. I just lost my dad after he spent the last four months in & out of the hospital and I’m not looking forward to sorting through the mountain of medical bills headed my way (I am the executor of his estate).

Wow. Fuck that. The rich are ruining this country and world with their unending quest for more money and power.

I agree, I just don’t share the optimism that it wouldn’t become an issue in the USA. Just because they don’t usually say the “kill yourself” part out loud here doesn’t mean our system doesn’t have other ways of encouraging it (like underfunding resources for vets). If MAiD expanded beyond terminal illnesses in the USA, then what would happen when a vet needs treatment for chronic pain or PTSD and there’s a 6 month wait at the VA hospital, but MAiD only has a 3 month wait?

The church.

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I am glad for you, that you've never had to watch someone die slow and ugly over many days. I have. It's the worst thing I've ever experienced.

Beg whatever gods you believe in that you never know what it's like to smell a loved one rotting while they slowly drown in their own fluids. That you don't watch their fingers blacken. That you're never there for those moments of confused semi-lucidity when they beg for help that isn't possible.

It is impossible to experience that horror without feeling a sort of shame that you're letting it happen. You wouldn't inflict it on a stranger's dog. You'd shoot it because that would be kindness.

GOP is pro big business. They'd rather money be funneled into the bloated medical system than building intergenerational wealth

Im game. I want out when Im 70 or when i become immobile if i make it that far

Im crying over your comment, as it reminded me of my grandma. That’s exactly how she go.

It was my brother's wife in my case. He was only twenty seven when her organs went into failure.