Submitted by CardBoardBoxProcessr t3_11z1rsm in DIY
I'm installing a hottub it wants "230v single phase 50 amps"
Neighbor's house recently burned down because the hot tub wire got chewed on by rodents which arced which burned the tub and ignited the house. I'd like to avoud this via an AFCI but I'm having no luck locating a 220-240v AFCI for this purpose.
Can you not get arcs with 240v?
The correct answer to this is to use rodent proof conduit outside and pull the individual wires through it.
Not an electrician, but: My understanding that the updated NEC only requires arc fault breakers for 20/15 amp outlets in bedrooms.
I can't imagine too many breaker manufactures have rolled them out for anything that isn't required by code.
Your best bet is probably a 240/60amp GFCI.
Also, as /u/topcat5 said, the proper conduit installed according to local code is the best option to prevent wires being chewed.
>My understanding that the updated NEC only requires arc fault breakers for 20/15 amp outlets in bedrooms.
........ No.
Re-read the NEC if you're going to cite it.
My bad, it's been a while since I had to re-do any electrical work involving a panel, and the summery page I was on was outdated.
Still, I'm not seeing 240v 50a breakers on either of the big box stores.
Oh nothing I can find in the states. I figured it made no sense about arcs.
Just my 2cents... I suggest water tight metal flex conduit. Metal flex conduit with a plastic wrap. Probably use four #6 wires, black, red, white, green for a 50 amp breaker.
That's why GFCI's are usually used in hot tubs, to detect ground faults. If you're not getting any luck finding an AFCI/GFCI for this purpose, it might be better to use two 120v GFCIs in series.
Likely hard/impossible to find a ganged breaker like that. Apart from proper installation/routing of cables, a hot tub is unlikely to ever be fully ‘rodent proof’. What you can do is to monitor arching. www.whiskerlabs.com has the little Ting device that will alert (and I’d assume there are many other suppliers). Service is free for at least three years if you have StateFarm as insurer.
I checked Schneider's website for Square D breakers, and they don't offer an AFCI breaker larger than 20A. I dont know the manufacturer of your panel, but Square D is one of the major brands used in new construction these days, so if they don't offer AFCI breakers larger than 20A, then it's likely none of the other manufacturers do. Your best bet is to use metallic conduit for the feeder, or run it underground (if that is an option), and put out some rodent bait boxes.
Can you use two AFCI in series?
> two 120v GFCIs in series.
No. You should never put GFIs in series. Besides, that would trip instantly. A 120V GFI compares neutral current to hot current. If they differ by more than 5mA , it trips. A 240V circuit doesn't use a neutral. You would use a 240V double pole GFCI/breaker. It compares the L1 current to the L2 current. If they differ it trips.
Honestly, with how hard it is to find the rating you need on an outlet, I would just use steel waterproof conduit and go to town... Might be the safest yet most possible solution.
I'll keep my eyes open for you though!!
Our hot tub has a 60amp GFCI, which is the manufacturer spec. The wires are in waterproof conduit.
Square D is available on Amazon for $95.
Home Depot offers the Square D in a outside panel for $136.
Note the mfg spec called for a disconnect box viewable from the spa and at least 5’ away from the spa. The outdoor panel can work for this.
Can you link me too these by chance in please? I'm having no luck
That’s more than the first one I saw, but that one is described as 60a, but the pic shows 15a
twohedwlf t1_jdagkhn wrote
Not get arcs with 240v....Lol...240v is AT LEAST twice as likely to arc as 120v because twice the voltage means twice the distance an arc can span.
And you should be able to find them, given all power here is about 240v, and they're available here.