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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcv57m wrote

Reply to comment by Pleuel in New 'biohybrid' implant will restore function in paralyzed limbs | "This interface could revolutionize the way we interact with technology." by chrisdh79

I mean, he's kind of revolutionized or helped revolutionize everything from phone books, to paying for things, to electric vehicles, to home energy, to freaking space travel.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdcvy3s wrote

Well, he owned the work of the people who did at least.

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Artanthos t1_jdejfoc wrote

Work that would not have been done without him.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdelk85 wrote

Without his money maybe. He just happened to be attached to it.

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Artanthos t1_jdelukb wrote

You don’t get one without the other.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdeml3u wrote

Ditto water and giardia... unless you boil it. Turns out that both water and money not only can exist without parasites, but work better!

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mymemesnow t1_jddk83v wrote

But he is an engineer and have helped to design many things.

He’s mostly just a businessman, but not solely. There’s lots of things to criticize him for, but he has done pretty incredible things counted together.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcwx74 wrote

If one guy spends $50 million on factory equipment to make shoes, then pays people to work in said factory, I'd say he definitely holds the lions share of responsibility for the shoes being made... When its a company doing something, yeah, the person funding and running the company is absolutely responsible for what it does.

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GothicSilencer t1_jdcxj7f wrote

The analogy falls apart a little with figures like Musk and Jobs, though. It's not just the factory, they hired inventors to invent stuff. Literally someone else's ideas making them rich. They just partnered other people's ideas with the means of production.

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Psychological_Ad_633 t1_jdcyxhg wrote

Do you have a source you can send? Not to discredit your points, but I've read it on reddit several times and never seen links. Would be interested in reading that because I loathe the dude.

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GothicSilencer t1_jdd0ae6 wrote

???

A source on how Steve Jobs marketed the works of Steve Wozniak? Pretty sure that's common knowledge.

Or how PayPal evolved out of an internet bank Elon WAS involved with, but they purchased the internet payment business developed by others, or how SpaceX' Falcon rockets only work thanks to Tom Mueller? Or is it more relevant that every Tesla model since 2008 has been designed by one man, whose name isn't Elon Musk?

Like, this is a well-trod road. It's not groundbreaking news to say Elon didn't design the things he's credited for making.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcy85i wrote

Not really. If you're the one providing both direction, infrastructure, and tremendous amounts of money to make something happen then you're largely responsible for it happening.

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orrk256 t1_jdefpc1 wrote

to put it as people did 100 years ago, if you own the means of production, aka the capital, you profit from the work of those who don't have capital, and the best part is when the people who have capital because they inherit it, they just accumulate more of it.

Damn, someone should write a book on this and help found some scientific movement to study this, we could call it "Capital" and make the study of the market economics!

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdeihfm wrote

Capital is just as important as labor is to a business running, and most people's labor is utterly useless by itself, and frequently not able to be done in the first place without the capital and infrastructure provided by the owner... You people all seem to have some silly notion that it's all about labor and labor is all that matters, when it just isn't.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd5y4q wrote

> responsible for what it does

I have sad news about how corporations work. You better sit down...

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd686x wrote

Dealing with that is pretty much what I do for a living, so I think I'm fairly up to date on how corporations work.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd8any wrote

You say that and then you say "the person funding and running the company is absolutely responsible for what it does". So you can see how I'm confused.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd8idp wrote

Because they are... This may be news to you, but a company without funding doesn't do anything, and a company without solid direction and leadership doesn't do anything for long.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd9nzv wrote

I'm having a little fun here. I know you're talking about "responsible" in the sense that they get the profit. I'm saying "responsible" in the more typical sense of responsibility. Like being responsible if your train derailed and dumped poison everywhere. That's the joke. ;)

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ValyrianJedi t1_jddbhd4 wrote

They are though. Especially in situations like that... For anything environment related the corporate veil doesn't exist, and shareholders and executives can be held personally liable in both criminal and civil cases... Like, people routinely hold owners and executives responsible for what their companies do... When Tesla does something shitty everyone acts like Elon Musk is 110% behind it and responsible for it. But then when Tesla does something good they all act like he has no responsibility for the company's actions and results.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdddx76 wrote

Yeah, go cause a train wreck and then compare what happens to you to what ends up happening to the shareholders of Norfolk Southern. You'll lose more than your investments, let me tell ya!

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I-baLL t1_jdd4hjm wrote

How? He got fired from Paypal so he didn't revolutionize paying for stuff as much as he was trying to get in the way of it. How did he revolutionize phone books? He didn't do much for electric vehicles. Tesla has been doing well but to attribute that to him personally I is bizarre. And regarding space travel, sure he works on SpaceX and reusable rockets are a great idea but what did he personally contribute? The idea to use ipad-like touchscreens in an environment where physical controls will be better in an emergency? Or compromising the design of a rocket to make a reference to the movie "The Dictator"? It's becoming more and more apparent that Elon's companies have had successes in spite of him rather than because of him. It's even worse now since he's taken engineers away from his other companies and is making them work on Twitter instead.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd56by wrote

If you aren't aware of how funding and running a company makes you responsible what the company achieves I really don't know how to help you on that one... And acting like Tesla or SpaceX would have gotten where they are without him is a massive stretch. Acting like they did it in spite of him is just silly.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdcwsbf wrote

He revolutionized phone books? The thing that people stopped using like 15 years ago? Tf are you talking about?

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcxilg wrote

Almost like they stopped using it for a reason or something... Yeah, the guy created the first online city guide that functioned as an online phone book, wrote the software himself, and grew it into a $300m company before selling to Compaq in 1999. Zip2 was the company... Thats where he got the money to make x/paypal. Which is where he got the money to start tesla and SpaceX

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DatSauceTho t1_jdcyt4v wrote

A city guide is not a phone book. Nor is it the reason people stopped using them. But alright whatever.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdczccf wrote

It was literally marketed as a replacement for phone books and functioned as a phone book with more information and resources.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdczr5a wrote

Yeah alright. But don’t say he revolutionized this thing or that thing. He didn’t. He came from a wealthy family, made more money, and invested in other companies that made even more money. Stop acting like this dude Toby Stark or something. This is the same dude that somehow found a way to make twitter an even bigger dumpster fire. So there’s that.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd0cw3 wrote

So now you're jumping to some entirely different argument to complain about. Kinda sounds like you just weren't aware that zip2 existed and are now scrambling to refuse to admit you were wrong... Also having a really tough time figuring out how you think "he came from a wealthy family" means that he isn't Tony Stark... Think thats my cue to stop responding to you.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdd2bh0 wrote

You’re reading comprehension is clearly shit. My whole point from the beginning is that he hasn’t revolutionized anything. That’s why I called Zip2 into question. No, I don’t know wtf that is or I wouldn’t have asked. But hey, if you enjoy publicly sucking off wealthy tax dodgers who take away from public funds and programs, by all means. Just do us all a favor and take it to twitter where that bullshit belongs.

I’m sure your idol will appreciate it.

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0reoSpeedwagon t1_jderv9s wrote

I mean, the fact that basically nobody remembers Zip2 in 2023 really speaks to just how revolutionary it was.

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GenocidalGenie t1_jdcxdyk wrote

Citation needed

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcxp1w wrote

For what? Zip2, X/PayPal, tesla, and SpaceX all have very readily available information on them

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GenocidalGenie t1_jddd0r2 wrote

He's certainly owned companies. Where's the revolution though?

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ValyrianJedi t1_jddhbfn wrote

Zip2 changed the way the businesses and customers found each other entirely. It was literally the replacement to the phone book, and first place where if you wanted to find a business you could just search categories in an online database and find numbers and addresses... PayPal impact was pretty obvious... Tesla breathed life into a virtually nonexistent EV market and has held like 3/3rds or more of the market share for over a decade. It's also at the forefront of both home and grid level energy storage... Then SpaceX literally privatized the space industry and changed the way that space vehicles made.

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