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Pilotom_7 t1_isod06x wrote

If they send droids to Ukraine, does that count as weapons Delivery or as Boots on the ground?

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Aggravating-Bottle78 t1_isoe5nv wrote

Its Bots on the ground.

Loitering munitions are already kind of halfway there.

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squanchingonreddit t1_isokocl wrote

If smart rockets don't count then the other robots wouldn't count either?

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PaulVla t1_ispku84 wrote

Just have to slow them down till they can have legs and nobody is able to tell when we went from rockets to T-800

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ieatassformymom t1_isokxgj wrote

Depends, smart bombs and rockets are guided by UAF, if they would give bots to Ukraine then it would be controlled by UAF, so no it wouldn’t count.

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ObscureD_Lee t1_isopg7k wrote

No one will want to fight the bosses stupid wars anymore is why to send in robots. They likely will have to resort to robots at some point once people start revolting more and more. Couple guys have beef and they think the citizens should clean up their messes… rude.

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IPutThisUsernameHere t1_isobibs wrote

Do you want droid armies? Because this is how you get droid armies.

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Echelion77 t1_isoi78k wrote

Better then human armies I'd say.

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IPutThisUsernameHere t1_isop5j2 wrote

I...actually disagree. I think that as long as wars continue to be fought, they should be fought by humans. If your citizenry does not want to fight, perhaps that should be an indication that the war should not be fought. If your citizenry does want to fight, they should be the ones to do it. It's an accountability thing. Yes, it means people will die, but that's rather the point. If you don't want to kill people, or you don't want to be killed, the same could be argued for the other side. And if that's the case, why are both sides fighting in the first place?

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StarChild413 t1_iss7yez wrote

Then why not just fight wars with a poll among both nations' people about who'd want to fight on the front line

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draculamilktoast t1_issanoh wrote

If you want to attack an otherwise peaceful nation that will use robots to slaughter everybody you send over their border then maybe you're called Putin and should be ashamed of yourself instead of trying to brainwash people into not defending themselves because you think they have a moral responsibility to be pacifists but you don't. This is all on him and any Russian who doesn't oppose him.

Speaking of Putin, do you think he cares? Nothing will change the mind of a mass murderer like him and even if you killed all 150 million Russian soldiers that crossed your borders they still wouldn't depose him and they would just keep sending more soldiers to rape children. Your theory breaks down because you assume Russians will back down due to losses when they just double down when they lose. You may think that there is some sense in left in their minds, that they aren't exactly like the unthinking machines you fear, but if anything they are less humane than unthinking machines even. Unthinking machines can be turned off when the war is won but enraged Russians will keep raping innocent civilians for decades after a war.

Even Russia itself has admitted that over a million people have been relocated away from a potentially prosperous life under a more western civilization only to be repeatedly raped under Russian justice (because they will have to spread their message of terror to make their potential future enemies afraid of them). I'd take a robot controlled by sane people over a bunch of hooligans ruled by an insane gas-station-mob-boss-macho-rapelord any day.

> why are both sides fighting in the first place?

Russia because Putin wants a legacy, the west because we still remember Hitler and what resulted when he was appeased time and time again. You could make the very same argument about not using tanks against Hitler but you would simultaneously be handing over the entire planet to him. Your intentions may be founded in sensible pacifism, but that won't work against the kind of people who use death camps to exterminate entire ethnic groups.

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Grapesoda5k t1_isokttx wrote

How would that possibly be better?

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Crabcakes5_ t1_isom8xu wrote

If everyone fought entirely with droids, no one would need to die in future wars. They would be fought entirely with money and manufacturing.

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Trips-Over-Tail t1_ispdxnn wrote

1: This technology won't be available to everyone for a long time.

2: Without the risk of flag-covered coffins the political barriers to war will be greatly reduced.

3: Technology used by the military will soon be used by the police.

4: People still live in areas wars are fought over.

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Grapesoda5k t1_isomvk2 wrote

Until a country decides to send them against a helpless human population.

What did you watch Robot Jocks last week and think this is a good idea?

"If" isn't a thing. Why would any country put their future in the hands of robots?

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Crabcakes5_ t1_isonv63 wrote

You inevitably run into the reality that doing so would be mutually assured destruction by the promise that the opposing side could then do the same to your people. The idea that we're going to keep sending soldiers to fight wars when robots become vastly superior is a losing proposition by all accounts of game theory. And, in all likelihood, when this is achieved, we will see treaties emerge that forbid use on civilian populations just as we've seen for dozens of other weapons in history. Of course, terrorist states will always break these rules, but in the end, the cumulative number of lives saved would vastly outweigh those lost.

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seclusionx t1_ispjp1e wrote

Lol @ treaty preventing usage on civilians.

Source: any fucking war.

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Grapesoda5k t1_isooula wrote

Until a country pays the robot manufacturer to favor them over their enemies or they start using EMPs or tactical nukes in retaliation.

A country could reverse engineer a captured robot and figure out a way to cripple them all or turn them against a home country.

It's not a good idea for numerous reasons.

Life isn't a TV show.

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AnOddFad t1_ispe33s wrote

Sending robots against humans would be a waste of resources.

A country that wastes robots on humans leaves their own country vulnerable when they could be saved for fighting against other robots.

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Grapesoda5k t1_ispesft wrote

Unless your armed the soldiers with cooking oil to pour on the robots.

There are plenty of low tech solutions to such terrible ideas.

A robot army would have a central control location vulnerable to conventional weapons.

And signal blocking would be an issue if they're controlled remotely.

Or just tie one down and upload a virus.

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Test19s t1_ispdixr wrote

The point of war isn’t to win a sporting contest but to incapacitate the enemy. These will likely be used against infrastructure or worse against civilians if they force a faster surrender. An absolutely loyal drone army is capable of incredible evil if it falls into the wrong hands.

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Agecom5 t1_ispfp12 wrote

This isn't a good thing, civilian casualties can never be taken out of the equation and by making it a "money problem", when war showed itself to be incredibly profitable, encourages war.

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_AutomaticJack_ t1_isql211 wrote

Yes, because all military actions are always entirely force-on-force and there isn't any collateral damage or, God forbid, dictatorial autocrats waging genocidal wars of territorial expansion where killing civilians is explicit the point. That would never happen.

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11fingerfreak t1_ison6ac wrote

Uh, they’ll use the droids to kill us. Lots of humans are gonna die. Lots.

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Crabcakes5_ t1_isoo8qh wrote

Nuclear weapons are perfectly capable of doing exactly the same thing, but that hasn't happened yet. Why? Because no one wants the same thing done to them in retaliation. Droid armies wouldn't be used on civilians due to the fear that the other side may use it on theirs.

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11fingerfreak t1_isoxtlv wrote

Maybe in the very, very distant future after most humans are dead, sure, they won’t use them on civilians since they’ll exist in so few numbers as to make it meaningless.

These weapons are likely to see battlefield use in our lifetime. Wealthy nations (basically just NATO) will have these. That means when the US invades someone (which we most certainly will at least 2-3 more times in our lifetime) the opponents will most likely have human soldiers and humans living in the cities. Our robots will slaughter their soldiers. Our robots will occupy their cities. Our robots will kill any of their citizens that resist. There’s no need to discuss the robots our opponents will have because they won’t have any.

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unkownuseerrrr t1_isu0f72 wrote

This is the future, like it or not. Including swarms of armed drones and 'fighter drones'

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iChronocos t1_isoktxv wrote

How could you view this as anything but inevitable? Just imagine a factory cranking out millions of drones that can fire small caliber bullets, or with small explosives, or some other weapon. A bit of AI and a few guys in a bunker can destroy a huge number of conventional troops. Anybody who doesnt do this will be spending lives at a non replaceable level, or spending an unnecessary amount on killing the enemy. It will be a new kind of brutal on par with WW1.

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PizzaRnnr054 t1_ispoewm wrote

We’ve been training for it with video games. If we all want to think about it.

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rookieoo t1_isokfvf wrote

Battle Bots: Nation State! Less soldiers killed, more jobs in tech support, and plenty of bot manufacturing back home! The 21st century MID is finally realizing its great potential!

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take_five t1_itcdkrj wrote

Well, our company converts scrap metal from death machines into wind turbines! WWI, but sustainable.

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LeonMann t1_isqwmdj wrote

Less soldiers killed for sure. But who are they Killing then other bots?? Surely not civilian's that would be something these nation's would ever do.

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JorisN t1_isolhze wrote

In the Netherlands they have high school competitions organized by technical universities and the military where students get to design robots for the battle field.

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bappypawedotter t1_isszhfk wrote

Sounds like a great way for wealthy first world nations to maintain their positions of power. :/

I was speaking to my BIL who recently got out of the Marines and was in their MARSOC Program. He was telling me that, for the most part, the primary job of special forces isn't so much to fight, but to train locals to fight for us. Actual engagements by our military is really a last resort. We really only do proxy battles now.

So the example he gave me was our "Murder Van" program in Afghanistan and somewhere in Africa. As described, both these places are run by local "Warlords" that are really just well armed gangs. So what we do is find the rival gang, and our Spec Forces dudes train them and arm them. In the example he gave, there was an outpost with about 50 well armed bad guys and an "officer" that needed to get got.

So instead of the typical onesy-twosy guerilla tactics the rival gang used. MARSOC came up with a plan and trained a group of about dozen rival gang members. First, MARSOC folks helped them procure a transport van (cant remember if it was stolen or purchased). They mounted a Machine Gun inside the van and armoured it. Then, they stick a few gang members in the van - all armed to the teeth with US equipment, and position the rest around the outpost. Long story short, the van pulls up to the gate, draws bad guys in, then starts blasting with the MG. Meanwhile, we launch long-range artillery and send in a fleet of drones to hit our targets and provide additional support when opportune. The other dozen go in and clean up, all the while getting fed info from our ground and satelite intel. The rival gang gets to keep the weapons and what is left with the outpost.

So this is the current iteration of our "Proxy War" approach. But you can see how adding more robots to this will make it even more effective.

Also, when talking to him about robots and stuff, he mentioned that the thing he sees as hugely valuable are "sherpa" bots. The whole murder van approach is predicated on surprise. So that means small teams who then have to bring in a crap load of equipment. So instead of having a dozen Marines each carring a 100+ pounds go gear, you could potentially have just 3 or 4 with a robo mule carrying the equipment. It opens up all sorts of logistical options.

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Gari_305 OP t1_iso81jp wrote

From the Article

>While the Netherlands and Estonia may be leading the charge with armed robot vehicle testing within the NATO alliance, the United States isn’t far behind. For the last several years, the U.S. Army has been testing light, medium and large variations of the so-called Robotic Combat Vehicle outfitted with remote weapons stations bristling with XM813 Bushmaster chain gun, .50 caliber machine guns, and FGM-148 Javelin missile launchers.
>
>As recently as this past February, Green Berets with the 1st Special Forces Group used RCVs armed with M240s, .50 cal M2 machine guns, and MK19 automatic grenade launchers to “make initial contact with adversaries and mask operators’ movements towards the objective” during a two-week experiment at the Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, as Breaking Defense reported at the time.

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11fingerfreak t1_isomypy wrote

So much for not weaponizing robots. The Oakland police plan to deploy shotgun wielding robots, too.

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Calvinkelly t1_isqb401 wrote

Yeah great that way soldiers life’s are not endangered. Russia should also send robots to fight our robots. They should meet on a dedicated battlefield and fight the conflict out. Maybe even more in the future you don’t even need the robots anymore because all fighting could happen in a virtual world. Imagine that. People fighting against each other in a virtual worlds but nobody dies for real…

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OmnipotentCthulu t1_isrplpj wrote

That would never happen. If it was feasible then a war would of never broken out to begin with since it would be taken care of using diplomacy. A war isn't meant to sway the other side to your views or even to find middle ground. It is to make those with influence that have a strong enough opposition to your views no longer exist.

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FuturologyBot t1_isocqmz wrote

The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gari_305:

From the Article

>While the Netherlands and Estonia may be leading the charge with armed robot vehicle testing within the NATO alliance, the United States isn’t far behind. For the last several years, the U.S. Army has been testing light, medium and large variations of the so-called Robotic Combat Vehicle outfitted with remote weapons stations bristling with XM813 Bushmaster chain gun, .50 caliber machine guns, and FGM-148 Javelin missile launchers.
>
>As recently as this past February, Green Berets with the 1st Special Forces Group used RCVs armed with M240s, .50 cal M2 machine guns, and MK19 automatic grenade launchers to “make initial contact with adversaries and mask operators’ movements towards the objective” during a two-week experiment at the Dugway Proving Ground in Utah, as Breaking Defense reported at the time.

Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/y6bhou/nato_countries_are_getting_serious_about_sending/iso81jp/

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charmingbagel t1_ispo3zk wrote

Get technology to kill for you while calling yourself brave. 🙄

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LoserMotron t1_isqkv8s wrote

Do you want Skynet? Cause this is how you get Skynet

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ConfirmedCynic t1_isqpv58 wrote

It's a military supplier's dream. Having some contained skirmish somewhere with both sides sending in an endless wave of killbots thus endless money pouring into their pockets.

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Tacky-Terangreal t1_isu6vhm wrote

Yeah I can sense the execs at Raytheon and Halliburton getting a raging erection thinking about the profits

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Forlorn_Woodsman t1_isr9oxv wrote

It’s going to happen. We’re seeing in all areas the importance of disruptive jumps in technological development. For me, stories like this make me wonder what forefront technologies might exist within areas like cognitive warfare which could affect decisive historical changes despite widespread ignorance of their workings.

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[deleted] t1_isp5a8z wrote

Didnt this already happen?

I feel like there was some huge power hungry nation state the put missiles on these robot plane like things and bombed the ever loving fuck out of the middle east in the early 2000s to the present day 🤔🤔🤔

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10tothe24 t1_isph49s wrote

Oh this shits gunna be awesome if it happens. Every war brings economic growth afterwords it seems so droids would become very advanced rather fast if this were to happen

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Professional_Day2626 t1_isogk4s wrote

Hmmm i think the bot could expel the attack wave by russian, i hope they would considering exoskeleton to equipt the soldier and make them capable to fight like robot

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