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jelloslug t1_j2c0k1f wrote

Hydorogen as a vehicle fuel is a boondoggle that is only being propped up by the oil companies.

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belligerentunicorn1 t1_j2cecbf wrote

I don't want an EV. Filling up a tank sounds more efficient. Just blaming oil companies seems like a lazy attack.

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jelloslug t1_j2cggup wrote

I would much rather it be full when I leave home or work every day. That much more convenient than having to go someplace specific to fill up.

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belligerentunicorn1 t1_j2cgskf wrote

You must not have a job or need to do much more than commute a couple miles. I might think an EV is OK for short trips around town, but it doesn't work for real work that requires long distance and hauling.

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jelloslug t1_j2ch15n wrote

I have had various EVs since 2013 and have put hundreds of thousands of miles on them since then. It’s not 2010 where charging takes half a day and is impossible to find for road trips.

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belligerentunicorn1 t1_j2chx9x wrote

I don't argue for short trips. Do you tow a trailer or carry equipment / tools? Do you travel for more than 5 hours in a time critical manner?

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Psychomadeye t1_j2d0rw2 wrote

I travel back and forth from Boston to Toronto in an EV taking about ten hours and as many dollars in fuel.

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jawshoeaw t1_j2cnxes wrote

It’s not lazy it’s accurate when it comes to hydrogen. The only cheap source of hydrogen is methane right now. Once solar and wind power are built out to the point we have surplus electricity then you can start making hydrogen essentially for free via electrolysis. But until then petroleum companies are going to do what companies do: lie cheat and steal to stay in business.

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belligerentunicorn1 t1_j2coana wrote

You forget nuke. Seems like building on a strong base is a better plan. Solar / wind can never be base. Battery tech is dirty in the supply chain.

Aviation might actually make hydrogen work, doubt the battery tech is going to solve for larger applications.

Being blinded by anti-oil bias is going to result in suboptimal solutions.

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jawshoeaw t1_j2cosd4 wrote

I could see nuclear powered hydrogen generators yeah. Batteries do have some dirty components but they are finding ways around them. And lithium may someday be sourced more cleanly, and if we’re dreaming , from seawater . I’m excited about lithium - sulfur (that’s still in the lab ). But right now they are already starting to build iron batteries and iron salt flow batteries for grid scale storage , and if they live up to the hype I could see wind/solar finally scale up to base load.

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BabyWetRat t1_j2cq4wb wrote

Why do you say that? Hydrogen is hydrogen, not gasoline.

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bremidon t1_j2cy1el wrote

Because right now, the big energy companies are the only ones who can create hydrogen at scale that is even remotely close to being practical in terms of cost. Unfortunately, this is using processes that are nearly as (in some case more) polluting as the ones we want to replace.

Dangle the prospect of green energy in front of an uninformed but well-meaning public; when they finally bite and commit to hydrogen, then simply switch in the gray and blue hydrogen. When anyone complains, point out that green hydrogen is still too expensive, but maybe "some day".

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paulduplantis t1_j2c2gmw wrote

The Petro industry approves this comment!

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zenfalc t1_j2crjrh wrote

No. It really is a boondoggle for most proposed use cases, for a huge number of reasons. Storage and transport are your biggest issues. Production becomes less of an issue as renewables supply the energy to be stored as hydrogen, but that's a post-petro world already. Brine disposal is a big one as well (though I can think of profitable ways to make that work).

Hydrogen will always have a place, but in general it's a loser to other techs that check more boxes.

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paulduplantis t1_j2f016k wrote

Absolutely not true! Hydrogen has way more capabilities to scale as innovation continues to bring prices down and safety increases. Just in 2021 alone, progress has been made in transport and storage. Saltwater to Hydrogen. Hydrocarbons to Hydrogen. Nuclear to Hydrogen. Ammonia as a carrier. Petro is a finite resource that is not clean and not scalable in the long term. Major players are starting to explore Hydrogen. So this is not a post petro movement. Not in the least. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/07/shell-to-build-europes-largest-renewable-hydrogen-plant.html........https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/toyota-s-upcoming-hydrogen-powered-5-0-v-8-engine-has-the-potential-to-bury-evs/ar-AA15Q9mq?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=7ddaeecdb9e647c8c57262dc64bf250b. Oh I can't imagine how many buggy whip manufacturers called the horseless carriage a boondoggle in the late 19th century.

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