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AmeriToast t1_j0j0ama wrote

When do we start calling them Big EV. Also my original comment was removed for being too short. It was actually just the first sentence from this comment. Now I am just adding stuff so the bot does not come after me again. Also, Bad Bot.

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perrochon t1_j0i0qhj wrote

They see the writing on the wall and are getting desperate. They have become like the dinosaurs they are selling.

Their problem is that it won't be trivial. Only if we let them can they succeed in keeping control of energy.

Their problem is that many people can charge at home/work/school/etc. There is no need to go to a station (except on road trips).

Even people who park on the street will have many options beyond "the station "

(Apartments dwellers will fit the most part charge in their spots, too)

We are at the cusp of an energy disruption with unlimited, cheap, clean energy (solar/wind/battery). It's only our own minds that are holding us back.

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/05/tony-seba-strikes-again/

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SatanLifeProTips t1_j0j5uvi wrote

The grocery store is the perfect location for FastDC (200+kW) chargers.

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eman0075 t1_j0icjfr wrote

A huge portion of electricity is generated by gas and oil. The oil companies don't care what kinda car you drive (ice or electric) theyll still continue to make billions annually.

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perrochon t1_j0ie6zr wrote

This is r/Futurology.

It's not about today, or even 2025.

We are at the beginning of an S-curve transition. It could take 10 years, or 20. But most here will be alive to see it.

Most capacity coming online in the US is renewable. Who would finance an expensive fossil fuel plant these days that will never make their investments back. They can't compete with sun or wind so they run only when it's dark and not windy.

It's already cheaper to build new renewable capacity than run existing fossil plants. Tesla Electric already flattens peak demand in Texas. More people will buy house batteries to avoid peak charges for gas plants, and many will actively arbitrage and/or sell their own solar at peak.

The rest of the world will follow, at different speeds. Those that still build fossil plants today will be slower, spend more money, and have more pollution.

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eman0075 t1_j0igdco wrote

20 years is still an optimistic expectation. Renewables only account for about 13% of energy demand in the US. The market is valued at around 900 billion dollars today and is expected to grow to around 2 trillion in 2030.so that's about double the current size. So that means by 2030 renewables will account for perhaps 30% of all energy demands. And thats assuming our energy needs don't keep increasing as they're likely to do. So we're nowhere near ending our dependency on fossil fuels.

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Kvenner001 t1_j0lk7u5 wrote

I hardly think they are getting desperate. They are just starting to shift portions of their ludicrously massive profits into the future energy sources. It will be the same companies running smart charging stations that make has now. They have the financing to do so and the incentive to price anyone else out.

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perrochon t1_j0lm60n wrote

How do they price out solar on a home?

Those outsized profit margins will suffer. They still will continue to profit from the hardcore ICE drivers who never drive electric, but those will die out.

They control oil, tankers, and raffineries, but they cannot control electricity. Neither can utilities, really.

There will be other large corporations though. Utilities want to be the new oil, of course.

But it's up to the people to steer this. Home solar is under attak on California. And heavily regulated in Florida, too.

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Kvenner001 t1_j0lsjc5 wrote

They’ll bribe the government into stating that the power company owns the panels on the homes. That’s what FPL has been working towards for the last three years.

They’ll find ways. They spent the last 100 years working systems into there favor. They aren’t just going to go away because the resources changed. They’ll bribe, buyout and coheres there way into maintaining power.

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perrochon t1_j0m8o06 wrote

Yes, Floridians get what they voted for. I doubt FPL actually has to bribe anyone to get what they want.

Californians, surprisingly, are about to get a raw deal, too. It boggles the mind how PGE and CPUC can hurt consumers.

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himmelstrider t1_j0jepck wrote

Big Oil is not, really, Oil. They're simply companies working with energents, and it just so happens they made a killing off oil, as it was used for the past century in large quantities, and it's a relatively high margin stuff.

As fossil fuel slowly shows signs of slowing down, smart companies are starting to invest in the next thing, because the need for energents is never going away, it's just switching types.

Besides, what is the alternative? Small, neighborhood, family owned charging station? Infrastructure laid out by volunteers? It literally can't work, there will be basically the same players that do gas stations now, they will be doing charging stations, we'll just have the ability to charge at home now.

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TerpenesByMS t1_j0k9mho wrote

Restaurants as competitors makes a lot of sense. Most EVs take longer to charge than fuel filling, but plug it in while you eat lunch or dinner and its charged when you're done? That's appealing.

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himmelstrider t1_j0kh7ld wrote

Well I'm not sure how is shit set up in US, but over here in Europe, on highways, it's basically just gas stations along the way. Nearly all of them have restaurants and cafés, and some of them have some pretty damn incredible restaurants.

And let's not forget one thing... It requires a very sizeable investment. Kind of which doesn't happen by a restaurant, not normally. Realistic expectation, at best, is for a restaurant to make a deal with energy company to have a few of their chargers in front - they get to charge for stations, restaurant gets business while charging.

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JoshSimili t1_j0koux2 wrote

Along highways, yes I can see the existing highway rest stops changing from being focused on a gas station to being centered around charging stations.

But within urban areas, I think the existing gas stations will simply vanish. There's no way they can compete against charging at home or while your car is parked and you're going shopping or working.

I think the real issue is how exactly we will get such a large amount of electrical power out to gas stations along remote stretches of highway in order to power the charging stations. Especially if heavy trucks are going to be charging there too. Each rest stop will basically need its own substation.

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TerpenesByMS t1_j0mcygb wrote

For trucks I can see energy supply expansion being a significant hurdle, but for most passenger cars the energy draw won't need massive rapid upgrades.

Really this whole shift is happening pretty gradually, so paced-out upgrades and energy company planning all come into play.

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TerpenesByMS t1_j0mcrga wrote

It's ultimately a real estate infrastructure play, like you say. Restaurants have real estate not currently used for recharging cars, but where customers naturally appear, sp the play is obvious. You're probably right about structuring: energy company installs a "vending machine" and the restaurant gets a cut for the place and the customer draw.

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Severe_Method3137 t1_j0lfitv wrote

Or restaurants and energy companies forming partnerships. Restaurant provides a draw, energy company handles charging, restaurant gets a piece of the pie and the energy company gets paid.

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Kvenner001 t1_j0ljmqy wrote

And when the refineries stop being profitable they’ll dump them on some dumb investors that think oil is still viable. They’ll shift to whatever energy medium that is current to maintain the stranglehold they have. They’d be dumb not to.

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FuturologyBot t1_j0i3lf8 wrote

The following submission statement was provided by /u/Chris_ChargedEV:

The CEO of FreeWire Technologies is in as good a position as anyone to understand the relationship between oil and charging—his EV Charging company is working with several major oil retailers.

In this video he explains that Energy is the only S&P 500 sector that overperformed in 2022. Chevron and Exxon alone printed $200 billion in earnings in the last 3 quarters. Where are they going to spend all that cash?
Some of it is sloshing around in the EV infrastructure industry. Sosinov lists just a few recent announcements—plans to invest billions of dollars, and to build tens of thousands of charging stations.

They know that their industry is facing an existential threat. Investing a few of their billions in EV charging is the only logical thing to do. Sosinov also believes that quick-service restaurants will soon launch another wave of EVSE investment which will represent a whole new category of competition for Big Oil's convenient store business model.

Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/znnd4p/heres_why_big_oil_companies_are_investing/j0hzsri/

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Inabind4U t1_j0k492l wrote

Most own the dirt, the building... tearing up old tanks ain't cheap and can create enviro problems. So there's that future thought. Some stations actually sell more retail than petrol. To have a transition "action" Sounds like a reasonable business approach.

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Romeos_Crying t1_j0kdt41 wrote

Think of a gas station, but a charging station. The hard shells are there...(automobile accessibility, logistics, decentralization). Traffic is there. Just need the infrastructure! We can produce the energy!

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Chris_ChargedEV OP t1_j0hzsri wrote

The CEO of FreeWire Technologies is in as good a position as anyone to understand the relationship between oil and charging—his EV Charging company is working with several major oil retailers.

In this video he explains that Energy is the only S&P 500 sector that overperformed in 2022. Chevron and Exxon alone printed $200 billion in earnings in the last 3 quarters. Where are they going to spend all that cash?
Some of it is sloshing around in the EV infrastructure industry. Sosinov lists just a few recent announcements—plans to invest billions of dollars, and to build tens of thousands of charging stations.

They know that their industry is facing an existential threat. Investing a few of their billions in EV charging is the only logical thing to do. Sosinov also believes that quick-service restaurants will soon launch another wave of EVSE investment which will represent a whole new category of competition for Big Oil's convenient store business model.

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TreesForTheForest t1_j0icn7x wrote

There is literally no way for oil companies to significantly slow EV adoption through rolling out charging stations. The idea that they would spend hundreds of millions or billions to roll out charging stations internationally, then have some high, but not blindingly obvious mega percentage, of those be inoperable to undermine confidence in EV tech demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of free markets, the technologies involved and human psychology. This is like believing there were 100 mpg carburetors, cold fusion devices or perpetual motion machines that the oil companies bought and shelved to protect fossil fuel revenue.

Oil companies have obviously fought to slow alternative energy adoption, but not like this.

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djdefenda t1_j0jovm5 wrote

Anyone know what happened to the car company making cars that ran on compressed air? Bill Mollison mentioned them when he was explaining how a trompe works....

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