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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2bw0o4 wrote

Reply to comment by wiseoldprogrammer in A man goes before Saint Peter... by SchwarzeHaufen

You can depose an entire ruling class using only defenestration? I'm just pointing out that the premise of the joke, that a worker's state is somehow simultaneously so dangerous as to warrant an undercover visit from a three-letter-agency and so pathetic that they don't have food, clothes or bullets is pretty illogical.

If someone could explain how the contradiction works instead of just mindlessly downvoting, that'd be great.

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chaosgirl93 t1_j2carti wrote

>that a worker's state is somehow simultaneously so dangerous as to warrant an undercover visit from a three-letter-agency and so pathetic that they don't have food, clothes or bullets

This is the "contradiction of the enemy" that fascists are known for - claiming that the enemy is both weak and strong. And capitalists have been doing it to socialists ever since socialism has existed as a codified economic system.

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Express-Antelope5515 t1_j2e8krn wrote

You do realize that this is what happened, right? They did have constant shortages of everything except military supplies. They were internally weak, but externally strong. The USSR put a huge amount of their resources and manpower into industrialization and military production.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cbvb7 wrote

Yeah, no kidding, comrade! But try to point that out and people get upset.

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Siegschranz t1_j2cdfv4 wrote

No kidding. It was pointed out to you in a joke format and you got upset.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cdwld wrote

Would you like to explain how Soviets are supposed to be both dangerous and pathetic? How does that work?

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Siegschranz t1_j2ce304 wrote

As a joke it works well. And if you raise your eyes up some, you might see we're in a certain subreddit that's privy to jokes.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cffwa wrote

No, it doesn't, because it makes no sense. A 'joke' is funny because it points out some truism that the receiver of said joke hasn't realized before. Even a simple one, like, oh, pillows are like giant marshmallows! Hahaha! If you tell that one to a small child who hasn't heard it, they'll think it's the most hilarious thing because to them, it is. Jokes are meant to make us think, and learn. This is why children laugh constantly. There have been serious psychological studies on the purpose of humor and what it does to our brains.

A 'joke' that sets the scene by establishing a character as both pathetic and dangerous isn't particularly good because it's not based in reality.

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Siegschranz t1_j2cfq9l wrote

Russia has proven to be extremely incompetent in warfare, which is a sign of severe weakness. But any country can likely target and kill and individual, which looks strong when you're in the country itself.

Hence the strong and weak imagery that was already explained to you and you agreed with.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cgaix wrote

Modern-day Russia is not actually the same thing as the Soviets who overthrew their oppressors in 1917, you know that, right?

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PhilosophicalBeers t1_j2e9kfl wrote

Your premise on what makes a joke funny is only true for yourself and not universal. Many other people read the joke and found it funny. Most jokes are not based in reality. It seems you are having a strong reaction to something that is very personal to you and it’s preventing you from seeing that a joke can simultaneously be illogical and funny.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cdnro wrote

r/whoosh

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Siegschranz t1_j2cdvl0 wrote

Unless that post was self reflective, it doesn't make sense cause you weren't making a joke.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cfto1 wrote

No, see, that was about you, not understanding what it is you're criticizing.

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Siegschranz t1_j2cg2rn wrote

I'm pretty sure it is about you not understanding a joke. Cause glorious Russia can't be described as weak or you'll find yourself falling out an 8th story window. I get it, you gotta look out for yourself.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cgsep wrote

Dude, I just explained to you that Russia and Soviets are not the same thing. Do some reading.

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Siegschranz t1_j2ci0sd wrote

You belong in this sub cause you're a joke.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2ci2le wrote

Oooooh, good one. /s

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Siegschranz t1_j2ci857 wrote

I'm just trying to keep you out of the windows.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cigtg wrote

I live on the ground floor, in the US. Try again.

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Siegschranz t1_j2ciqj9 wrote

Oh thank God, so you're allowed to insult Putin and Russia, right?

Can you say Putin sucks dick for bus money, then walks home?

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chaosgirl93 t1_j2ccj7r wrote

Well, hasn't been too long since the Cold War and a lot of the Anglosphere still mindlessly hates socialism because of the Red Scare.

Especially pointing out that capitalists do the same things to socialists that fascists do to their scapegoats. People really get upset when you compare capitalism to fascism, or imply that fascism is capitalism in decay.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cco2e wrote

Yeah, it makes their profit-loving brains melt. Oh well.

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chaosgirl93 t1_j2ccsbk wrote

It sure does.

Although it can be fun in person. Watching the gears in a capitalist's brain slowly grind to a halt, is hilarious.

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Spirited_Island-75 t1_j2cd5ay wrote

It really is sometimes! Mostly I just want good working-class people to understand how deeply they're being screwed, though. I hope to get the gears to turn the other way.

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chaosgirl93 t1_j2cdpu1 wrote

Indeed. Confusing them can be fun but it's not useful, much better is to explain socialist ideas without the big scary words from the Cold War and get them to see how they're being screwed. Most of the time you're not dealing with an actual capitalist or a rank-and-file fascist, you're dealing with a good, decent working-class person who is brainwashed and getting screwed over, and it does no good to confuse them or try to debate circles around them when you might be able to get them to see through the programming if you avoid the words they've been programmed to hate.

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RobinPage1987 t1_j2dcxam wrote

The danger comes from both what they have that we wish they didn't, and what they didn't have that both us and then wished they did. They had nuclear weapons, and it was understood that if the regime felt like we were going to attempt to depose them like we did Saddam Hussein, they would end the world. They didn't have food or clothes because they redirected all their resources to military buildups, thanks to the fucked up mentality that told them ending the world was a totally appropriate response to conflict with the West. Ironically this actually made them even more dangerous because then we were dealing with a massive inferiority complex of people who had nothing, and could never admit that they had nothing. Armed with nukes. If they had spent their resources on producing food and clothes for their people like a good workers state should, instead of planning to cause the apocalypse, they wouldn't have had the inferiority complex,

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Malvastor t1_j2eb77g wrote

>a worker's state

You... you think the Soviet Union was a "worker's state"? Oh boy.

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