I need some home heating advice from anyone with experience

Submitted by layoxx t3_zaf4p3 in Maine

This is our first home and I feel like we jumped into it too fast withiut a good understanding of the costs of a "fixer upper" if anyone with experience on Maine winters and heating a home can offer some advice I would really appreciate it.

We tried to get oil for the tank this week and were told the tank needed to be inspected first. It failed inspection and now in order to receive the oil we prepaid (a freaking grand for) we need to pay three grand (or more?) for a new tank. We have a quarter of a tank currently and they didn't fill it.

The guy who inspected the tank had legit points, I don't think we're being extorted or anything, we just don't have that kind of money anymore because we've had so many emergency costs for the house. What are our options? I feel like it's way to late for us to swap to something other than oil, but maybe not? Do we just have to eat this cost?

This is the part where I blow off some steam, feel free to skip; We had to buy a new roof this year and it drained all of our backup money. It's just one thing after another with this fucking place and I feel terrible complaining because the housing situation is so bad for so many. we got this place three years ago and have been getting refills on oil until this year when we wanted to switch companies for a cheaper rate and we fucked it all up and oil went through the roof. Me and my partner both work decent jobs full time and I feel so fucked over that we are struggling so terribly. The roof got busted up and leaked all into the house so all the paint is peeling off and we found out the jerks who flipped this place before they sold it to us didn't fix the wiring, and I still think there is a pipe leaking in the bathroom but we haven't been able to get a plumber and to be frank I stopped trying because that's just going to be more money we don't have. This year has been just horrible and I went from having any kind of savings to trying to figure out how to borrow from my retirement plan without getting flayed by taxes. If we have any other emergencies we will be completely screwed.

Thank you for listening.

Edit: thank you all so much, I didn't expect such an incredible outpouring of support! You are all the best. Right now we are waiting to hear back from the oil company with their official quote, and then we will make a plan. I feel way less overwhelmed now that I know so many possible solutions, and I feel more in control of what is happening that's to all of your advice and assistance - thank you again.

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Redmond_OHanlon t1_iymese8 wrote

I have an oil tank that is in decent shape that I am not using. It's half full from when we last burned oil--almost a decade ago. If you want to make the waste oil your problem, I can help get the tank up bulkhead stairs, and I have a machine for loading it on your truck or trailer.

We converted to wood, and then added a heat pump when we were able to squirrel money away. I relate to not being able to keep up with expenses on a fixer upper. But, fwiw, it's still so much better than landlords and their skimming ways.

PM me if you want pics of the tank.

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layoxx OP t1_iyovlmd wrote

Thank you for the offer! We are going to make a plan and if we end up going that route I'll reach out. All the best

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salvelinustrout t1_iylz22x wrote

Lots of good suggestions about DIY options if you’re comfortable going that route, and working with the dealer.

Definitely inquire with Dead River about financing. Tell them cash is tight but you obviously understand heat is essential and would be happy to discuss any payment plans for a tank install and/or delivery that they could offer.

Also, reach out to your local CAP — just google Maine Community Action Partners and find the one for your area — and speak with them about whether you might qualify for any assistance. There’s no shame in getting help, you’ve no doubt already paid in and will continue to do so in the future. Safety nets are here for exactly these types of situations so a bit of bad luck doesn’t turn into a spiral. Similarly, reach out to your municipality and inquire about General Assistance. They should have some funds available that could help you with this acute issue. Local churches also often have some funds that could be available to help.

In the next few weeks, look into heat pumps and/or a wood/pellet stove. Both are significantly cheaper heating options than oil. The timeline for getting an install may be weeks or months, so it’s not an immediate solution, but is one of the best things you can do to start saving yourself money on home ownership. Efficiency Maine has near-zero interest financing you can take advantage of, for those systems and insulation and air sealing, which will also cut your costs and are probably a good idea now that you have a slick new roof.

Good luck.

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layoxx OP t1_iym9qdd wrote

Thank you very much, this is great advice and I'm incorporating it into my plan.

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Moot_n_aboot t1_iylz6v7 wrote

I’d look into if a cash based oil company near you will deliver to get you through the winter. I too bought an old home and have seemingly had to drain my savings more times than I’d like to admit to fix a crisis. 5 years in its so frustrating but my mortgage is below market rent so like you said, I try not to feel too much animosity towards my 100+ year old fixer upper. If you get in a horribly rough spot, you can always get K1 or off road diesel at your local gas station and fill your tank 10 to 20 Gallons at a time to limp along until you can get your tank replaced in the spring. As someone in your same position, I’m hoping some good luck is headed your way soon.

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layoxx OP t1_iymani4 wrote

Thank you. I didn't know we had the option to use diesel, so this is very helpful at assessing all our options.

I try to remember how bad renting was and not try to feel too bitter about the house, I think it was still a better choice than many renting options - we just had some truly awful landlords. All in all I do love the home, I just wish having two jobs was enough to stay above water.

I'm wishing you all the best, if I get any of that good luck I'll send some your way as well.

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demalo t1_iyn31j2 wrote

Uh I’m not sure about diesel, but kerosene may be the better route. Diesel could frig up your oil atomizer. Not an oil technician.

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Moot_n_aboot t1_iyne9b8 wrote

heating oil is just diesel fuel with red dye. Both will work, but diesel has a better chance of water contamination and costs significantly more due to it being taxed.

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demalo t1_iyng5p6 wrote

TIL

Looks like diesel is more refined too, but strangely can cause issues with your furnace.

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A-roguebanana t1_iyp4n36 wrote

Unless this is a Miller furnace (which should use K1) road diesel is pretty much the same as #2 and perfectly fine.

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eljefino t1_iyofqp0 wrote

K1 supplies are very tight and expensive, leave it for those who need it for outdoor tanks.

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danheskett2022 t1_iylk1go wrote

Safety of the tank is no joke, and switching providers, they are more or less required to do a safety inspection. Can you tell me who was your old provider, and who your new one was? A tank replacement is hefty expense, but several of the larger providers have good options for financing which can help you spread the cost at least over some time.

Additionally, it's not impossible to repair a tank that will eventually need to be repaired. If there are rust spots, you can empty the tank, sand out the rust, patch the area, and then continue using the tank. What exactly did they say were the problems?

Finally, if you do have to do a replacement, aggressively shop the replacement around. $3k is a fair price, but you can possibly find someone to do it for less. Call around, and just tell them your best price and ask what the cost is for a replacement. Also, you may be able to find a tech willing to do the replacement if you provide the tank, and it's acceptable to source your own used tank.

There are other, slightly less reputable means you can use to extend the life of your existing tank. Be creative, you might be able to think of them on your own.

Worst case scenario, if you can't replace the tank this winter, look at space heaters, pellet/wood stoves, and electric heat to supplement. Long-term it will be more expensive but it can help you delay the expense of the replacement till later when you can afford it better.

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layoxx OP t1_iylkt40 wrote

Thank you. I was present for the inspection and though I wasn't able to clock the issues without an expert I fully agree with the expert that the tank is beyond the point of repair and unsafe. The thing is rusty, there was a leak, it's tilted and being propped up instead of resting flat on the landing (presumably to help with the tilting). The leak alone is cause for major concern. I guess if it's possible to repair or replace the leaking part it can be saved

We used to use MW seawall and we swapped to dead river.

Thank you for the advice

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danheskett2022 t1_iyllisg wrote

Dead River is a really good choice for a long-term relationship. They are based in Maine and have been for a long-time. They are a little more expensive on delivery, but they have excellent service and will take care of you for the long-term.

I also think they offer good installation payment plans. If they didn't give you info on that, I would reach out and ask about it.

It is often possible to repair a rusty thank, but basically, you need to have space and ability to do it. There are a lot of YouTube videos on how, but basically, you have to drain the tank into something that can hold your remaining oil (~50 gallons it sounds like, so not nothing), then disconnect it from the system, rinse the inside and safely dispose of the residue so there aren't fumes, and then clean the area, sand out the rust, apply a rust coating, and then have it re-inspected, then re-installed flat.

The installers and inspectors from major dealers are typically very honest and if the Dead River tech told you it's a goner, he's probably right.

For next winter, in the spring, contact Dead River about going on a budget program. You can lock in a price that has downside protection (i.e. you get a good price lock at off-season prices, but if during next heating season the price drops, you still get the lower price). They'll take your expected usage, divide it into 10 payments, and then you'll pay that from like the summer through the next spring. You can go over your expected usage a certain amount and they'll bill you at the end of the season. This can really help you plan and normalize your expenses and avoid big $1k chunks coming due when you least expect it (i.e. Christmas time).

Good luck.

PS: If you are feeling DIY, the basics of an installation aren't intense, and you can find used tanks of Craigslist in Maine for well under $500. Do your own visual inspection for rust, read up on the connections and the equipment you need for the connections, rent a truck, get a friend(s) to help bring it down the bulk head, and go for it. Double check for sure, but I am pretty sure you do not need to be licensed to do an oil tank installation as long it's inspected by a tech before use.

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ecco-domenica t1_iymiil2 wrote

Just FYI, Dead River is now owned by a private equity firm in Maryland. I've been a Dead River customer for over 10 years for the reliability and good service you described, but just had a very bad experience with them (after spending $3K for a new Rinnai purchased from & installed by them) and will be switching to a small local company in the spring.

They "lost" half their techs over the summer (unknown if they got laid off by the PE firm or quit, either way not good), scheduling someone to simply level my tilting tank has been a nightmare that's been dragged out since Dec 21 and is still not resolved, and the customer service people out of Scarborough that I have to deal with now are sarcastic and nasty unlike the local people that were always helpful and nice.

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MaineGal2022 t1_iymv98v wrote

Thanks for this information which I didn't know. I am also a long-term Dead River customer and I also have felt like there was a change but I didn't know why. For years, the tech who came to my house was Rick. When I called for my annual service appointment, I made a comment about Rick and the woman snapped at me, "We don't have anyone working here named Rick. I don't know what you are talking about." Really? Maybe it is time for a change.

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ecco-domenica t1_iyvr7zb wrote

When a customer service person shows that kind of attitude, it's because that's the attitude that's coming from above. It'll permeate the culture and is hard to get rid of once it's there. Every local tech, driver & office person other than these two service managers has been wonderful and obviously hardworking. The driver practically runs when making a delivery but still has a smile when he hands me the bill. That's something that's not just one individual; it's a company culture that won't last if people at the top don't demonstrate it themselves.

One small example of this is at my local Hannaford, the bagging is terrible. The cashiers are polite and otherwise competent but they don't know how to put groceries in a bag. Stuff is thrown in & jumbled up willy nilly. It's been this way for years. The next town over, they're all bagging experts, even the kids. Each item is perfectly placed with speedy precision. The bagging culture is ingrained at each store. It's been taught and handed down from one generation of cashiers to the next and it shows.

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layoxx OP t1_iym9utv wrote

My partner is very DIY focused, he's done a ton of the house repairs already so this is a good option for us. Thank you!

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Laeek t1_iyls0kl wrote

Replacing your heat source is, for the most part, going to be just as expensive as replacing the tank.

The only thing that would probably be cheaper is buying a pellet stove and installing it yourself.

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layoxx OP t1_iym9x3t wrote

Thank you! I will look into pellet stoves

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bubba1819 t1_iymkyhf wrote

If I were you I would go for a pellet stove over a wood stove. The install is cheaper and you can fill the pellet stove once and it will run for hours.

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Longjumping_West_907 t1_iymudqs wrote

Yes. For 3 grand you should be able to get a pellet stove or a heat pump and be better off than using oil.

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2muchyarn t1_iyll0re wrote

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. Some houses seem to just suck all the funds right and left. Your immediate need is to stay warm and have hot water. I am assuming you have a boiler? First, any chance you can go back to the previous oil company and they will deliver? Second can you install a wood burning stove? We are heating our house mostly with wood this year.

After you have made it through the winter I would suggest a thorough inspection of the house and its systems to determine exactly what is needed and what order of importance. We have used an inspection company that provided 3 separate inspections of a house we were considering buying. The information was very helpful in the negotiations. We also found a restoration contractor who seems to speak to these old houses and helped us understand ours a lot better. These resources helped us form a plan of attack for our house.

Then work from that point on improving. Maybe 1 or 2 major projects a year for a few years. Can you do some of the work yourselves? That can stretch the budget. If it is too much for you to do, you may want to look at selling and get out of there. You may also be able to get some decent financing for some or all of the repairs so you can get at least the very important stuff done without feeling so restricted in the budget. Some companies may offer financing such as heat pumps and/or solar. If you have equity in the house maybe a HELOC would be favorable. This may help get some of the work done so you are comfortable in your home.

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layoxx OP t1_iyma7a5 wrote

Thank you, this is great long-term advice. We got an inspection but the person who did it was clearly not great since we have had so many surprises. We have been doing a lot of the work ourselves but the cost of supplies has been a big factor. We anticipated some of the repairs but just kept uncovering larger issues as we attempted smaller repairs.

I'll look into getting another inspection so we can plan better.

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Lorindel_wallis t1_iym047c wrote

Maybe try a heat pump? They are quite efficient and generally cost less to run. It will not be cheap.
Buying a fixer house is no joke. It’s very expensive.

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dalcourse1 t1_iymd2pv wrote

Some good stuff in here. If you do move your own tank(s) my favorite way is with a thick ratchet strap or rope wrapped over both shoulders (behind your neck) and going down each of your arms and under the "belly" of the tank. It's a little awkward to walk while you're hugging the tank, but with a person on each end it's no problem.

I didn't see this recommended yet, but have you plastic wrapped your windows and linned the bottoms of your exterior doors with old towels or blankets? Or those cute stuffed-snow-men doing the splits. You can pretty seriously increase your home's insulation factor by taking some of these extra steps. If you have a room that doesn't need the light you can put up whole blankets. Get some good socks and a sweater or two you love and keep that thermostat low :)

Good luck 🤞

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layoxx OP t1_iyme7hm wrote

Thank you for the practical advice!

We have plasticed about half of our windows and are working through the rest, and we got some cool insulated / magnetized door covers for the mud room

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salvelinustrout t1_iyn70vu wrote

You can get $100 back from Efficiency Maine for these materials too — they have a rebate form on their website.

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cfowler42 t1_iymjplr wrote

Eat the cost, buy a pellet stove and in a few years you’ll be saving money

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kubabooba t1_iylpkif wrote

If it was me I would make it work for the winter and get a new heating system during spring. You can patch up the tank with JB weld or other preferred method. Make sure the tank vent is clear of any obstruction and do a daily check on the tank. The tank is not pressurized so the biggest hazard is leakage and possibly fumes. When spring comes you can use states incentives to get heat pumps installed and see options for secondary heating system. When it comes to fuel I would call around there is always some one who would deliver and worse comes to worse get some diesel from the gas station, essentially the same as heating fuel.

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layoxx OP t1_iym397o wrote

Thank you, this is a really helpful option.

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mymaineaccount46 t1_iym382n wrote

Sorry your going through this.

Would it be possible to return to the old company for one year? May eat some cost on your prepay and may not be the most environmentally friendly decision if your tank is leaking, but needs must.

Outside of that I'd think it's too late to try and do a whole new heat source. Even if you want to switch to something like a wood burner you'd need to acquire the wood, the burner and get it all installed very quickly. Would probably end up running you a similar amount of money you don't have.

Home ownership is always one expense after another. Especially on older homes it seems like it never ends and everything is more expensive than expected. If you can get a personal loan to handle the tank and the plumbing issue I would. Water is something you have to take care of as it will cause more, cascading damage. It's not something you want to let go if you can at all avoid it.

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layoxx OP t1_iymay68 wrote

Agreed. I was worried it was just too late to swap to something besides oil but it pretty clearly is. We are going to get a plan together today or tomorrow and I'll start back up on trying to get a plumber.

Thank you

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HIncand3nza t1_iym4gy8 wrote

Your best option is going to buy a tank off Craigslist or FB marketplace. It’s a gamble, but use your best judgement on the condition relative to yours. Also get a wood stove, and some wood for next season. Alternative, find a friendly inspector to okay the tank.

I’ve been in the same boat as you, as recently as October, and the best advice I can give is you’re going to have to do as many things yourself as possible, or be very very assertive with people you hire. Don’t assume that anyone is competent, or won’t cut as many corners as possible. Your best interest and theirs do not necessarily align.

In Maine fortunately DIY everything is possible. Fixing a leak is very easy, running new wire is very easy. It’s just confusing and time consuming. Take a step back and think it through for awhile and it will seem less challenging. If you go DIY the only way to justify it is if you cross the ts and dot the Is. Cutting corners on the previous owner’s end is likely how you needed up where you are.

I’ve tackled projects from a full bathroom rehab to reroofing, insulating a crawlspace, installing a wood stove. Running wire, and doing the plumbing for a bathroom. Fortunately I have a very good job and paid for everything except the bathroom from cash flow. The bathroom demolished my savings. So did the roof and the stove

The emergencies do slow down. I’ve been in my place since 2019, the first 2 years were nothing but non stop crisis from plumbing leaks to substantial roof leaks to basement flooding.

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layoxx OP t1_iymb71j wrote

Yes the previous owners very obviously cut corners. Seems like every month we find something new and curse them out fresh.

Luckily my partner is very DIY capable (and I try my best) so it's feeling more doable this morning than it was last night. Thank you for all the advice!

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imnotyourbrahh t1_iym9n3a wrote

YouTube has thousands of instructional videos so you can do any work yourself. No need for plumbers/electricians and in Maine it's legal to do your own work. I would have recommended tarping your roof until you were ready. Buy a used woodstove off Marketplace and comb the forests for fallen trees and limbs. Heck, you can come to my land and leave with a cord of wood in no time from fallen trees.

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therealwolfe1982 t1_iyo3iun wrote

Ugh that happened to me in October 2012, month after I bought the house. Guy from Downeast Energy showed up and did the inspection and said “I ain’t fillin that”…it was a little flaky and rusty for sure. I had a another vendor just fill it and went a couple of years before getting it replaced, I figured the home inspector didn’t bring it up and maybe it was OK. Eventually the company I use for furnace cleaning and service (Dean Hanscom in Gray, awesome guy) did a replacement tank for about a thousand bucks I think (circa 2015/2016). They sell those tanks at Home Depot so you can price one out yourself and maybe if you have a truck bring it to the basement and then pay someone to hook it up only, and then leave the old tank in the basement off to the side until you have some extra money to have it cut in half and hauled off. Good luck!

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Majestic-Feedback541 t1_iyn18zy wrote

You bought a fixer upper, my dude. Fixing the issues with it is kind of your cost to eat. Did you not get it inspected before purchase? A list of some sort of issues that needed to be dealt with?

Either way, it's winter in Maine, you need heat. Many others here have offered some great advice.

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