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Night_hawk419 t1_ircnbw0 wrote

Reply to comment by M4053946 in ACLU files federal discrimination complaint against Central Bucks School District, alleging discrimination against LGBTQ students by Zashiony

Why do you care what these people do? It doesnt impact you at all.

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[deleted] t1_irco36s wrote

[removed]

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Night_hawk419 t1_ircqgq4 wrote

You can care about whether your neighbor lives or dies without infringing on their own rights to live their own lives.

There are rules that make it so that minors can’t just go have gender changing surgery. But infringing on a persons right to figure themselves out in their own way isn’t cool and is none of your business.

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M4053946 t1_ircqlmm wrote

> There are rules that make it so that minors can’t just go have gender changing surgery

One would think, but hospitals around the country have been exposed as doing these procedures. It's happening, and unfortunately, it's seen as a right-wing extremist thing to want to shut it down.

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Night_hawk419 t1_ircqsc8 wrote

Proof?

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M4053946 t1_ircsk63 wrote

There are plenty of example on right wing sites, which you will probably simply reject, despite them having videos, source tweets, etc. Left wing sites have been ignoring the issue, though the NY Times just ran this piece. A few key bits:

"Michael is part of a very small but growing group of transgender adolescents who have had top surgery, or breast removal, to better align their bodies with their experience of gender. Most of these teenagers have also taken testosterone and changed their name, pronouns or clothing style."

So, drugs with permanent affects, and surgery on minors.

"Genital surgeries in adolescents are exceedingly rare, surgeons said, but top surgeries are becoming more common. "

Rare, but apparently even the NY Times is saying they're happening. And "top surgery", aka double-mastectomies, are "becoming more common".

"some patients come to regret their surgeries."

This is pretty big for the Times to say this, as not too long ago people said that detransitioners didn't really exist.

"Dr. Gallagher, whose unusual embrace of platforms like TikTok has made her one of the most visible gender-affirming surgeons"

A surgeon is directly advertising to teens on tiktok. Reddit loves to hate on pharmaceutical companies advertising their drugs, but apparently a doctor advertising to vulnerable youth is fine.

"[in one study] Roughly one-third of those who underwent surgery reported ongoing loss of nipple sensation...Most patients were surveyed less than two years after their surgeries, and nearly 30 percent could not be contacted or declined to participate."

This is a study they point to as showing success, a study where 30% have negative side effects and where 30% of the participants dropped out, and where there was no real long-term follow up. This fits the pattern in that studies that show support for this are low quality.

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Miserable-Effective2 t1_iree7ic wrote

Also read the comments on that NYTimes article. You will find the majority taking your stance, the opposite of the Reddit hive mind.

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Night_hawk419 t1_irgmv71 wrote

Ok and did their parents sign off on it? Or are they just going and doing it on their own behind their parents back? If there’s parental consent and child and parent all want it to happen, I don’t see a problem here.

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M4053946 t1_irh1l0k wrote

So a kid (or their parents) can't consent to sex, but they can consent to surgery that has no evidence of effectiveness and large risks of permanent harm? Come on.

And of course, the other question is how honest were the doctors about the treatments? For example, it's commonly stated that puberty blockers are safe, but there's no actual evidence for this, and the NHS recently changed their website to indicate that it's not known to be safe and there are risks. If a doctor told the parents it was safe while not actually having any data, then was that really consent?

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Night_hawk419 t1_irh4anz wrote

I think kids are allowed to consent to sex. Not sure what you are saying by that.

I could see there being legal liability for the doctor if the parties don’t sign a form saying they consent and understand there are risks. But that’s why there’s courts. I sign away liability going to Bounce U lol. If they sign away liability they are choosing to take that risks and that’s on them.

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Quothhernevermore t1_ircrbp1 wrote

How does living as a different gender compare to self-harm? You just don't like it and won't admit that's your only issue. No teenager is getting surgery.

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M4053946 t1_ircsvgl wrote

I just posted a link to a NY Times article here. Yes, it's happening.

Do I understand you correctly that you think that this is bad for teenagers to be getting this sort of surgery?

edit: and, downvoted for posting sources. Whatever happened to the party of science? Did that get boring or something?

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BurntOrange101 t1_ircv6cq wrote

That’s between the child, their parents, and their doctor.

When they said it doesn’t harm anybody, they meant it doesn’t harm the people around you…. Yes it has the potential to harm the child if their surgery goes wrong…. No, a child identifying as the opposite gender they were born does not affect the other kids around them… if my kid decides to dress like a boy and identify as a boy, none of the other kids in the school are going to become physically harmed by it….

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M4053946 t1_ircviqs wrote

>That’s between the child, their parents, and their doctor.

Interesting, so a child can't consent to sex, but they can consent to genital surgery? What's your rationale for that?

>does not affect the other kids around them

Kids influence each other. This has been understood for at least 3000 years. A few years ago the trans rate was 1 in 10000, according to the DSM, and now it's about 1 in 50 (or more). But reddit thinks that this is biology and not peers influencing one another. Because of reasons.

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BurntOrange101 t1_ircxh9q wrote

Interesting…. Ignore the part about “their parents and their doctor.” 😐

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M4053946 t1_ircxsxb wrote

The parents and the doctor have no high quality research to point to that show these procedures are effective, so these procedures are unethical.

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BurntOrange101 t1_ircxxe3 wrote

Also there’s more of a lot of things (queer, autistic, anxious, depressed).

It’s called being more widely accepted and more people being ok with coming out….

You know there was a point in time where you couldn’t have a mental illness or you were a maniac and locked up…? Does that mean now since more people are diagnosed with schizophrenia, bipolar, depression etc that’s also just made up / a result of kids rubbing off on one another or ….?

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M4053946 t1_irdlwbc wrote

There's those reasons I was talking about.

So let's recap: no research to show the benefits of medication/surgery, massive negative side affects from medication/surgery, massive increase in numbers, the existence of co-morbitidies such as depression and autism, a predatory medical environment, and huge financial costs.

No problem says Reddit! These depressed and lonely teenagers have looked deep within themselves and know who they truly are. Sure, teenagers have been making bad decisions based on emotions and peer influence for all of recorded human history, but these teenagers are special, and so anyone who questions their emotions is a hater and a bigot.

But, to answer your question, if a condition like bipolar increases by thousands of percent, you still don't give them medications and surgery that are not backed by rigorous research, especially when there's massive negative side affects.

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