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And the build trades get shafted. If anyone needs a shorter week its manual labour

Shouldnt be an experiment, should be the new standard everywhere.

This should be adopted everywhere. No idea why it's taking so damn long to implement.

I agree but what it really turns into is them constantly making fridays manditory overtime. Then you just have a 50 hour work week. I've been working 4 tens for a couple years now and it doesn't matter where you go they all act like they are entitled to your fridays.

Unionize and take what's yours!

Sadly this would never be a thing here in the US. I have to beg to not work 6 or 7 days each week because of understaffing.

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Mandatory overtime? Corporations being greedy with our time as usual.

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Unfortunately in Alberta, union might as well be a swear word. My whole family and most of my closest friends are in the trades and not a single one of them regards unions favourably.

Mental inertia in the people running it.

My job can be almost entirely done on computer, from anywhere. I could literally go in like 2 mornings a week. Some of my colleagues are 100% digital.

Boss still has a "work from home doesn't work for me" philosophy. But he's also got the old mindset of "I value the time, not the work". If I go in, do all my work in 34 hours, and I spend the last hour chatting (one hour spread across a week), he'll complain about it.

It's something that will change, but in a lot of cases it's going to require senior management aging out of the workforce.

"Unions are for lazy dogfuckers who like being laid off for half the year"

Something like that?

It’s been my reality for over 3 years now. Honestly one of the best life changes I’ve ever made.

Agreed. My buddy and I interviewed the lady whose org is one of the ones behind this (Charlotte Lockhart of 4 Day Week) study. She was absolutely fantastic to talk about this with. It was clear she and her partner are serious about this program, and the passion drips from them. Quite lovely people.

This is my situation. My direct supervisor doesn't want WFH. Not even 3 out of 5 days. And everything I do could be wfh.

The really dumb thing is that my boss has the longest commute of all of us, and he's been overseas for the last 2 weeks for his mother's funeral, but as a workaholic, he's still been working fine. I do wonder at the dissonance of "you can't work from home because it would be bad for productivity, even though I m working from 7 time zones away with no problem".

Step 1 is to not be defeatist. I have a feeling the end of this decade will look far different than the first part as the stubborn old schoolers retire.

E: username checks out.

4 day versus 5 day... I wish. Worked 7 day weeks for 15 years. Most people I know work at least 6. When are these studies actually going to apply to the every day person and not the elite?

"Unions will make everything cost more and corporations won't make record profits that don't actually stay in the province but we pretend that this money actually benefits the people who it is actually screwing"

I'm part of a large union in Alberta and the government pressure to try to break it has been intense.

four workdays a week combined with working from home is the future

Excellent. I hope this creeps to other provinces.

Won't ever happen. It's a nice thought. But there's no way in hell companies would get on board with this sort of thing.

Only problem is that some people don't like 10 hour days.

Let’s give 4day work week to the child labourers in third world countries first. Or maybe ya know, stop that shit

we do 4 days at my factory.... 10 hours a day. only reason my shop did it was to avoid paying ot. they started a weekend shift which does 3 12 hr shifts and I see more places going this route. i wish I could only work 32 hours a week. I'm sure I wouldn't feel burnt out all the time

We do 4 days a week and Thursdays from home. 4 day weeks have been common for decades here.

Sure they will. It'll increase profits for entertainment and travel/tourism industries.

So office workers will have three day weekends to shop/travel/go out and there will be more need for retail & restaurant workers to work more hours at low wages.

I can see politicians going for this.

Most reasonably high paying careers require more than 40 hours a week to get work done. I don’t know if it really applies to the “elite”

He hates his family and has a nice car.

The idea is to keep 8 hour days

Really? Hmm. So a 32 hour work week.

I don’t want to work less than five days a week. I like work. What are you supposed to do with three day weekends every single week?

As a machinist I hated the 4x10s.. it's great for a while, you think you get a long weekend, but for me, I was up at 3am to get to work and start at 5am with my commute, then finished at 330pm, got home around 6 sometimes depending on traffic, and had to be in bed so early (like 730) to get enough sleep I had no social life on week nights OR I had less than 5 hours sleep a night, and in either case I didn't have enough time to even keep a clean house during the week (single man home owner with no kids or anyone to pick up slack). So where I thought it'd be great having a long weekend, Friday was always spent asleep, too exhausted to do anything, and having to do all my chores and errands that were neglected during the week, and I had to be in bed so early Sunday, it felt like I only got half a weekend.. it sucked in summer.. even with blackout curtains. I'd end up sleeping on the couch in a nest and not showering or changing my work clothes for days to save time.

As an office jerk or working from home though it may be different. That was my experience. I'd go all week without seeing the sun till the weekend in winter lol.

My old work (CNC Machining) tried the 3x12. Went back to the 4x10 because they lost a lot of productivity and killed a lot of parts, everyone was just too wiped. They went back to 4x10s. I left that place, I'm doing 5x8 now, I like it on my schedule, I bodybuild so it gives me time after work to do that

By 'old schoolers retire' you mean 'boomers finally fucken die' don't you? I'm sure that's what you meant

They already do in manufacturing, and a lot of other blue collar jobs like collision repair. Once you get out of the office jerk life, there's a whole new world of worse working conditions and exploitation awaiting you

been on this schedule for 2 years, and I was on a 3 day work week prior to that. I will never accept a 5-day schedule again.

Not really. I know there are many boomers who are more enlightened than their peers. I honestly feel bad for what many of them have had to deal with for their 65+ years. All of the working class are in the same boat, regardless of age.

The study concluded that almost an entire day was dedicated to meetings that were pointless. I work in the DOE (US Department of Energy) space and every Friday is just solid meetings that could easily be done during the week but researchers like to cram meetings on Friday so they can leave early while the rest of us are stuck working the full day.

As much as I love this, countries that won't have this are going to have a serious competitive advantage. Won't be adopted in countries like China where 9-9-6 is the norm.

I work 4-10's. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.

Having Wednesday off really cuts down on any true burnout before the week is over, having a day to reset and do whatever I like is beyond nice.

I've noticed that I have far less a desire to call in if I'm feeling super burnt out (and I mean actually burnt out, not this "eh I dont feel like going to work today so ill just use my sick time because its whatever" - kind of attitude).

I used to work the 4 in a row, and there were many times it felt like I was pushing through either on auto pilot or muddling.

But I feel that my craftsmanship, alertness, attention to detail, as well as interpersonal abilities aren't as taxed by the end of the week.

Take the government to change law overtime from 40 to 32. Salary based on 32 hours 52 weeks a year. But I don't see our government doing that.

What industry are you in? That sounds excessive.

America will be the last to adopt it or have a huge fight over it

While I do agree with the whole going to bed early thing sucking Id say the experience all depends on the person. I used to come home everyday after work go to the gym, make dinner, load the dishes, shower, and watch a few videos or draw and then get my 8 hours of sleep and honestly aside from the actual job it was some of my fondest times. Having a regiment is very nice to me. While I wouldn’t want either long term its much preferable to a 9x5 in my eyes.

Who says I'm an 'office jerk' lol. I'm a gas engineer. I have never worked in an office in the 20+ years I've been in full time employment. There isn't sight nor sound of any company here in the UK dropping to 4 day work weeks without compromise. And that compromise is working the same hours as a 5 day week over 4 days. So that's not really a win in my eyes.

What does 4 days a week mean in terms of hours worked? No mention anywhere.

As a paramedic / nurse, most of my career has been 4d / week, but 12-14hrs shifts I'm working 48-55hrs a week...

Just sayin.

It could be the present but people are dumb. I remember years ago i was working in an office and everything i did could be done from home. I asked my boss if i could and he looked at me like i was asking him to organize dogfights in the breakroom... People don't like change, even if it would be better for everyone...

Food. Specifically Processing; from Farm to Food Ingredients. That said, anything around Food, Medical or Emergency Services (to name a few) are known for long weeks and hours. For two years after the Pandemic 70-80+ hrs a week was common for us. 60 hrs has always been a short week in our Industry, but consistent 75+ was a new level of burnout.

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So did the hours just slowly creep up? How much do they pay for overtime? How come people don’t quit en masse? How do you and your colleagues feel or are doing about it?

Sorry it might be a lot of questions. I’m not from the US, so genuinely curious.

All good questions. When you're new and training, you're on an office schedule, so M-F 40 hr, once you take a bid into a department you move to what is called a rotation schedule. This means work 7 days, have one off, work 7 have 2 off, work 7 have 4 off. You time off only lands on a weekend once a month, during that 4 day period. Since we work with food, it is 24/7/365, so holidays mean nothing outside of more pay. The pay is the only reason they keep people. It is $28 an hour with anything over 8 hours in a day being 1.5x, anything over 40 hrs being 1.5x, Sundays 2x & holidays being 2.5x. We are a Union facility, or it wouldn't be that good.

Hours have always been 60+ a week, we knew this going in, but new corporate trends like "lean manufacturing" that means fewer employees, less maintenance and reduced benefits have made for consistently more hours, more stressful work environment and higher turn over. The people that stay are usually my group, the 50 somethings that don't want to start over some where else after spending 10 years to get to a day shift, and... need the income if we ever want to retire in this economy. The other group is the young bloods, 20-35 yr olds who have never made this kind of money and assume they will be able to move into a decent position in a reasonable amount of time. Usually takes these guys 5-10 years to figure out the company sees us a just another resource to expend. By that point they are used to the income. Divorce rate is high. Spouses feel the hours, but when it comes giving up the money, they tend to say "it can't be that bad".

My point is, the employees that stay tend to do so because they feel trapped. Greed and inflation in America has made it so making ends meet on less than $40k a year is a struggle at best. An old and tiring story.

4/5th the pay too?

Very well explained. You seem to be very aware of the situation and employees’ and management’s mindsets as well.

I can sympathize as I’m in an industry that has long working hours and poor pay in general. Took me a decade and a few jumps to land into my current niche where I can make reasonable salary with reasonable hours.

All the best to you!

Thank you. Here is to a healthy work / life / income balance for everyone. raises glass

Cheers! (Raises glass)

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