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jenglasser t1_jddbcf1 wrote

This kind of shit right here is why I need to get into better shape. If I had rushed in to help, we just all would have died.

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beefwarrior t1_jddmj2v wrote

Met someone who’s husband died trying to save some drowning kids in Lake Michigan. Learned that often there are multiple drownings, where one person was drowning & then people who went to help drowned too.

I can’t imagine what it would be like not to help, but I know I’m not skilled enough to save a drowning person in rough conditions and won’t attempt to unless I have things like a life preserver, rope, etc.

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Meowerinae t1_jddu7hr wrote

When I was doing my cert to beccome a lifeguard, something that stood out to me was how dangerous people drowning are, and how in their survival mode they will grab their rescuers and drown them without a second thought. It was a big lesson on bringing a floatation device and throwing it to them while remaining a safe distance away. I don't think this could have been official training but I remember hearing that it's safer to knock a drowning person unconscious before trying to save them if you have nothing to throw to them. Not sure how you'd accomplish that but it just highlights how dangerous drowning people can be to those trying to save them.

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I_just_made t1_jddx5k7 wrote

You hear similar things when going through rescue diver certification in the PADI system of scuba diving. Been several years since doing that, but from what I recall you’d throw a floatation device to / past them if you could.

If you had scuba gear on and had to approach in the water, you’d maintain a bit of distance to assess the situation before making any kind of approach. I think you were supposed to keep your regulator in your mouth when close in case they tried to climb on you, but I could be misremembering that.

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CandiedOwl t1_jdel90o wrote

I’m currently going through this course now. Yesterday we did panicked diver rescue skills, in which we were instructed to dive beneath them, surface behind them, and straddle their tank with our knees while we inflate their BCD and then ours. We haven’t gone over rescuing a non-diver yet, but I think that the going under / resurfacing behind them would be a good way to avoid them hanging on to you and would make it easier to knock them out if necessary.

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StitchinThroughTime t1_jdetn41 wrote

Yes, it's one of the ways people actually told to getting drowning people to stop grabbing on to you is to dive down below. They don't want to be underwater so you dragging them down freaking out even more and they let go.

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I_just_made t1_jdfezbg wrote

Ah yeah that’s it! It has been several years since I have even gotten the chance to dive.

Hope things go well for your course, they are useful skills that can certainly make you more confident when diving in a variety of situations.

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lazytemporaryaccount t1_jdh2gn3 wrote

To be fair, you don’t need to knock them unconscious, you just wait until they fall unconscious on their own from the whole “drowning” part. At least that’s what they taught us to do if it was too dangerous to approach someone. A lot of the rescue techniques where also specifically designed to grab people from behind/immobilize their arms for similar reasons.

Also I’ll never forget the instruction that if someone panicking / drowning does grab onto you to try to keep their head under water, don’t fight them and try to get to the surface. Instead stay calm and go down once holding onto you means going underwater, they’ll let go.

And as always 1) Reach (ie grab someone from a safe location/ reach out to them with something inflatable that they can latch onto) 2) Row (approach in a boat, particularly in open water) 3) Throw (an inflation device) THEN 4) Go

Going into the water after someone is dangerous and other options should be considered first, even for lifeguards. As a bystander, your first instinct may be to jump right in, but always look for other options.

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Sbaker777 t1_jddzdsf wrote

As a former lifeguard, I would recommend that no untrained person try to save anyone over 50lbs without a very floaty object. You’ll probably both drown. Even with all my training I’d strongly hesitate to go in after an adult with no flotation device on me. (You’ll read in this article that the girls had a flotation object: smart as shit) They’ll flail and push you right under.

If you decide not to take my advice, keep as much distance from the person as you can and approach from the back, put your arms under theirs and swim backwards with them.

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Jaque8 t1_jded9h4 wrote

My good friend is a highly experienced waterman and lifeguard and said the same thing, that even he wouldn’t attempt a rescue without a flotation device unless he outweighed/overpowered them by a LARGE margin. He was basically saying he’d let someone like me drown but would save a kid or a woman <140lbs. He said if you do find yourself in that situation then dive DOWN and they’ll let go, someone drowning doesn’t want to go deeper they want to stay on the surface.

I was cliff diving in hawaii with a friend and his teenager just a few months ago, his kid started seriously struggling on the swim back in and needed help… That advice above kept going through my head as I approached him. He’s 16 years old but plays football and is pretty fucking strong for a kid, probably a solid 170lbs+, Thankfully he wasn’t in full panic mode yet and he listened to me while I put him in an assisted backfloat to rest while I swam him in… But if he had panicked and grabbed me I was fully ready to dive down and swim away. I don’t know if I would’ve just let him drown as I don’t think I could live with the guilt just watching from a short distance, but fuck what else can you do?? Just glad he worked with me and didn’t fight me and I didn’t have to make that decision.

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Sbaker777 t1_jdehgv1 wrote

Agreed with all points and neglected to mention if you do find yourself saving someone, you did the exact right thing. Communicate with the person you intend to help. Talk to them, tell them you’re here to help and to let you take control. Though this won’t work a lot of the time but still.

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Queendevildog t1_jdfbvjr wrote

The only time I ever rescued anyone I grabbed a random styrofoam floatie board without asking. My daughters friend had an asthma attack while swimming in a lake. Maybe 200 feet from shore. I paddled as fast as I could and got her on the floatie until a boat got to us. It happened so fast. If there's kids or even young teenagers in deeper water having a floatie and constant vigilance is a must. I was the adult in charge and to this day it gives me the willies. What if I didnt have a floatie? Or was distracted? It could have been very bad. I dont think it would have ended well without the floatie.

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bluejackmovedagain t1_jddpehl wrote

We had a horrible event locally this winter when a child went through the ice on a lake and his friends tried to rescue him and went through too. Most of them drowned in the icy water.

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Significant_Sign t1_jdghqik wrote

We had that last summer in a nearby lake. A young teen was drowning, 2 different friends tried to help, in the end all 3 teenagers drowned. I think the oldest one was only 15. I get numb to all the horrible news, but that made me feel sick to my stomach for days.

Also, lifejackets are super sexy everybody, I promise. Please wear your lifejacket.

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TheMooseIsBlue t1_jde7wfj wrote

It’s very common because the drowning person is often desperate and acts against their own benefit. They will grab onto their would-be savior and push them under. It’s why lifeguards will always try to approach from behind and with their can/floatation device between them and the drowning person. If you fight a lifeguard out there, they’re trained to back away. It’s easier to save an unconscious person than a flailing person.

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dzlux t1_jdea251 wrote

>easier to save an unconscious person…

This was a solid reality check in rescue training. Every potential rescuer needs to first know that someone potentially drowning will try to climb whatever they get their hands on… including the rescuers head. If there is no floatation device, rescuers have to be insanely careful.

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TheMooseIsBlue t1_jdeavkj wrote

Doing scuba certification, someone in my group went down to do the skill where you take off your mask and take out the reg and then put them back on. This was after like 2-3 hours in the water, but this guy just freaked out and started grabbing at the instructor’s reg. He’s got oxygen strapped to his own back and he still nearly drowned the person next to him.

Desperation is nuts.

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dzlux t1_jdfu91e wrote

Enough time underwater and you see some scary moments.

I won't buddy up with strangers on a dive. I have seen the full range of people that manage panic very well and very poorly... and it is valuable to truly understand a dive partner before dropping 60ft with them.

I hope the diver you saw found some inner calm along the way or chose to quit diving.

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TheMooseIsBlue t1_jdg2b7k wrote

Yeah, I’m always nervous going solo on a trip and partnering up with a rando.

He obviously failed out of that dive and I don’t know if he ever went back to finish. Crazy because he had been totally fine on every skill we’d done in the pool and the first couple of open water dives. But when panic comes, it’s not easy to swallow it down.

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SkinHairNails t1_jdg7ww3 wrote

Oh man, I wasn't able to grab my regulator a few times (I was able to collect it in my arm, but I didn't realise I did), panicked and after a minute shot up to the surface. This was in a diving pool at just a couple of meters so that was fine, but obviously wouldn't have worked in the ocean once I was at any real depth. I'm very glad I didn't try to touch the instructor, but that moment of sheer panic is real, and it's hard to control your response. It was embarrassing, and I was surprised by my response to it.

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rfccrypto t1_jdetbfr wrote

A few years ago in NY a couple of people got trapped in a weir and died. Then the professionally trained rescuers came in a boat to get the bodies, they got too close, capsized, and died too. The water doesn't give a fuck.

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gedai t1_jde1paz wrote

Once on a hike down a river we found a dog skull about a half mile from where we started. On the way back we found a plaque dedicated to a man who drowned trying to save his dog from drowning. Could have been a coyote skull, but still.

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Ilookbetterthanyou t1_jdfq6yr wrote

That actually happened to me and I almost killed my baby brother because of it. We were 3 and 7 at the time. I saw my brother fall in a pond in a neighbours yard, I dove in after him forgetting I couldn't swim. The neighbour saw me drowning and safed me, but he didn't know my brother was in there too. I swallowed water so couldn't speak coherently for a few seconds but eventually managed to say my brother was in there, he dove immediately and saved him as well. That was more than 30 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.

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Orome2 t1_jddyimn wrote

I had a friend that died trying to save his drowning daughter. They both died.

This was actually in a lake, but the visibility was so poor that it took days to find their bodies. He was very athletic too.

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Plenor t1_jddym2e wrote

Unfortunately people die trying to save others from drowning all the time.

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nikicampos t1_jdevnjg wrote

And that’s WHY he wants to get in shape

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North_Atlantic_Pact t1_jdeygml wrote

Rescuing someone in rough surf takes WAY more than being in good shape. Tons of people who can run a marathon wouldn't be able to pull a limp (or even worse fighting back) person in the conditions that caused the potential drowning to begin with.

I'd much rather someone in not peak shape but who knows how to move in the ocean, vs an elite athlete who occasionally goes for a swim in a private pool

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[deleted] t1_jddjsn6 wrote

You can do it! Start small and work your way up. 👍

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TheBoctor t1_jde1ovc wrote

Went whitewater rafting with my wife a little while ago and we got tossed from the raft after going over a waterfall. It took every bit of my panicked strength to get up and grab the raft, and my first thought as soon as we got to shore was that thank god my wife is a strong swimmer and in good shape- because there’s no way I could save her and myself at the same time and that thought scared the shit out of me.

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jenglasser t1_jde6zew wrote

Damn, that's scary. Glad you both are okay.

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Dorocche t1_jdeaggb wrote

Falling out of the raft during whitewater rafting is actually pretty normal; it's far from risk free, but as long as you curl up you're probably safe. The rapids come in waves, so in between sections of rapids there's plenty of calm water to get back in the raft.

A few of my friends in middle school actually had their raft guide fall out of the raft mid-rapid. He shouted "get down," but they thought he said "get out," so they all jumped out too. Imagining that poor raft guide's face as six 13 year-olds abandon ship for no reason never fails to crack me up. Everyone was fine haha.

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TheBoctor t1_jde9l2o wrote

Same.

I used to be a great swimmer, and I’d swim in the ocean all the time. But as soon as I went under slammed my head into a rock (thank god for helmets) it became rrreeeaaaalll apparent how many years ago those beach days were.

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Comnena t1_jdeuc0e wrote

The big thing they did here that helped was bring a floating object. That's extremely important to improve the survival outcomes of everyone involved. People often rush in without anything (understandable) but it's very common for the rescuer to drown.

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BarbequedYeti t1_jddk14m wrote

It starts in the kitchen.

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jenglasser t1_jddn3ka wrote

Weight loss starts in the kitchen. Fitness is a different issue, although related.

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ScottieRobots t1_jde20i1 wrote

Fitness starts in the kitchen for me, too.

Fitness whole stack of pancakes in my mouth, that is.

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Nmanga90 t1_jddrubj wrote

Definitely also starts in the kitchen. You’re pretty hard limited on your ability to get more fit by the amount of fat on your body

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chewbadeetoo t1_jdduyp6 wrote

I guess it depends on the amount of fat but yeah if you push too hard exercising while carrying a lot of extra pounds you risk injury.

You can exercise for a full hour hard as you can, and burn the same amount of calories that can be eaten in a few seconds. I've seen people go workout then think it gives them an excuse to eat more. Been guilty of it myself to be honest. Like that old maxim you can't outrun a bad diet.

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muscletrain t1_jde06yw wrote

Not to mention the over calculation typically of all the smart watches and even heart rate is not that accurate. Was one of the nice things about getting power meter pedals on my bike, it's a pretty damn accurate calorie burn metric based on weight and power output.

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Dorocche t1_jdeavsj wrote

That's only true in certain contexts, and doesn't necessarily make good general advice. Most people with low or normal body fat I know are terribly unhealthy, and I know plenty of people with plenty of body fat who run 5ks.

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Nmanga90 t1_jdeg4wz wrote

I’m talking about the average American who is pushing 30%. Likewise, terribly unhealthy rail thin people are also limited by their body fat and need to make dietary changes.

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BarbequedYeti t1_jdeof4d wrote

> Weight loss starts in the kitchen. Fitness is a different issue, although related.

Totally disagree. Nutrition and your diet have everything to do with your overall fitness level not just some related piece. This is why so many yo yo over and over and over again. They never figure out their eating.

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mrkiddi t1_jdea9dt wrote

I'm in the kitchen, now what do i do?

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BarbequedYeti t1_jdemuiu wrote

Not eat a bunch of shit. Re-educate yourself on nutrition.

People hating on that comment that getting in better shape starts in kitchen is hilarious to me. Upset the eaters I guess. Each their own

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magic1623 t1_jdjd0s8 wrote

It’s not because of that, your comment at first glance looks like one of those “women belong in the kitchen” type of comments.

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