Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

AutoModerator t1_isn9r11 wrote

Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a place free of excessive cynicism, negativity and bitterness. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here.

All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

Jugales t1_isnaqew wrote

Spread of electricity has gone up too. Correlation or causation?

361

Piecesof3ight t1_isnfjrk wrote

Replying to Gulbahar-00 (#122,213)

Well the government builds infrastructure, then individuals use it to make profitable businesses. And the government can fund at a deficit if need be, so there need not necessarily be much money at all to start.

28

mdog73 t1_isnlwde wrote

Great news, glad to see poverty being erased worldwide. Hopefully all the other great changes come along with it as their market opens and flourishes.

34

Sanju-05 t1_isnqz2j wrote

It’s strange how someone here has commented india has corruption free govt. right, anonymous bonds and removal of cap for corporations to donate to political party which is basically legitimate bribe/corruption is corruption free. The ruling party has a billion dollars in its account despite covid and apparently that’s all given by corporations because of their large heart. 😂😂😂 50 million people according to world bank were pushed into poverty in India during covid and India’s true GDP according to former chief economic advisor to Modi govt is less than 3%. BJP’s IT Cell workers and NRI’s need to learn how to be patriots not nationalists.

−18

Gavin_Volure_ t1_isnslxs wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#122,287)

India is rife with speed money--bribes paid to bureaucrats which speed up the otherwise (often intentionally) extremely slow process of providing permits such as those required to start businesses.

12

MisterBilau t1_isnxddw wrote

"includes deprivations in exactly four indicators: nutrition, cooking fuel, sanitation and housing. "
Well, if that's the bar, that's not saying much. Most westerners would still consider the majority of those 415 million "poor". Having a hut, firewood, a latrine and some food does not mean not being poor. Sure, maybe 415 million are now not poor... by 19th century standards.

−29

sharanyaaaaa t1_iso6t6w wrote

Number is going back up tho. Plus the poverty level data isn't updated according to sky high inflation either i.e. the income bracket you should fall in to be considered poor here.

I know countless people who fell into poverty in last 2 years and it's getting very difficult for them.

But electricity, water, internet, digital finance and startup ecosystem has improved by miles. That I'll give credit.

51

KaifiAzmiGhost t1_iso772f wrote

Replying to MisterBilau (#123,040)

True. Though, IMO, we have come a long way from setting up the country from scratch after centuries of the British, French and Portuguese colonialism, riddled with anxieties over food security, fighting one war with China (we lost) and four wars with Pakistan (all won), plenty of economic sanctions laid by USA over nuclear tests in 1998 (albeit lifted within a year) to here.

Sure, we can improve much more.

8

Kent_Knifen t1_iso77yd wrote

Replying to red_purple_red (#123,394)

India has been going through something of an industrial revolution in the tech sector in the last decade. Tons of tech jobs entering the market and a workforce willing to adapt to rising demand. Those jobs also require sufficient infrastructure to exist, which has been rapidly expanding to accommodate.

60

PM_ME_YUR_BIG_SECRET t1_iso7v5n wrote

Replying to MisterBilau (#123,040)

I have been jaded about "poor vs not poor" since an episode of West Wing where they were talking about raising the poverity line to adjust for inflation and someone was like "you can't do that, that would make a million people 'poor' overnight." And then the discussion was about how the standard of living wouldn't have changed, just the cut off (and it's political implications). Anyway, I imagine India is getting better in that regard, but having a sharp cutoff between poverty and not is hard to judge.

4

clownandmuppet t1_isoa8zs wrote

Hope it doesn’t correlate with 415Mn excess deaths during COVID…

−10

anfuman t1_isoap56 wrote

No. India rejects this report. We aren’t accepting any reports these days now.

0

rogueblades t1_isoarmp wrote

Replying to MisterBilau (#123,040)

its the difference between relative poverty and absolute poverty.

Because westerners (even relatively impoverished westerners) enjoy a standard of living which is hard to fathom, these significant gains don't look like much to western onlookers.

20

bcanddc t1_isobime wrote

Go capitalism!!!

1

zethuz t1_isoe0xw wrote

The large population has been a root cause of many of India’s problems. Sadly this is something previous government largely ignored or did not address it adequately.

0

Blinktwist t1_isohhnv wrote

Replying to clownandmuppet (#123,748)

415 million deaths would mean ~25% of the Indian population are dead. If this was the case the country would've been in a state of absolute anarchy, the likes of which haven't ever been witnessed, which it clearly isn't.

41

Azgardian3000 t1_isoi031 wrote

Our govt doesn’t accept any reports showing they fucked up. Only praises please.

−4

Alkans_bookshelf t1_isoi0sn wrote

Don't tell that to uber-lefties. Thats pure fake news to them.

−8

lastwhangdoodle t1_isoip4r wrote

Another propaganda post from India Times, got it.

−13

SurturOfMuspelheim t1_isoiz02 wrote

Did they actually get lifted out of poverty or did the definition of poverty change again?

−12

plowman_digearth t1_isojav8 wrote

Replying to red_purple_red (#123,394)

A mix of economic growth so more resources to take infrastructure and welfare to the most needy. And a few big social welfare schemes which - though wrought with corruption - did transfer a lot of money and aid to the poorest people in the country.

6

esensofz t1_isojihc wrote

Well are they alright? They probably can't afford health insurance. Did they fall far?

−3

plowman_digearth t1_isojjl0 wrote

Replying to Alkans_bookshelf (#124,195)

Err the report does state that 2/3rd of the 415 Mn people moved out of poverty until the right wing government took charge. If this report is to be believed - the current government is doing a worse job in poverty alleviation than their Uber left predecessors

5

itsgoodtostartfresh t1_isojnd4 wrote

Didn't they simply reclassify who is considered poor/destitute?

−12

newmoneyblownmoney t1_isok0eh wrote

Replying to red_purple_red (#123,394)

My multi-national, billion dollar company sent a ton of accounting, engineering, project estimating and IT related jobs to India.

These were roles once held by people in the US making 6 figures or close to it, I’m sure these people in India aren’t making 6 figures but they’re making a pretty penny.

31

Zekrom16 t1_isokou1 wrote

Replying to plowman_digearth (#124,251)

Atleast the problem is now identified instead of solving hunger govt need to promote protein rich foods , non veg isn't an option for large chunks of the population so veg protein rich stuff should be promoted to get over the problem of stunted growth and undernourishment.

8

Beetin t1_isoldok wrote

Replying to LupusDeusMagnus (#123,908)

https://ophi.org.uk/multidimensional-poverty-index/

Article says it is based on MPI modelling. (health, education, living standards). That model gives you fun descriptors like "Multidimensionally poor" which just sounds like a sick burn.

It is a VERY low threshhold for poor though. "Do you have no assets but get enough calories, attend(ed) a decent amount of school, have electricity, shelter, and basic health?" You aren't UN humanitarian level poor, just normal poor.

You can find MPI reports for India online. here is 2021 AFAIK

It has some obvious gaps (can only estimate when health records aren't available for example) but it's developed by smart people with access to a lot of data with the purported goal to track and reduce extreme poverty. Make your own conclusions. It gives examples of how to calculate in the link above.

It varied from region to region, but new reports are showing that the poorest areas are gaining the most, reversing an old trend. Some had huge improvements to drinking water, others to education, attendance, and years in education, others to things like electricity and cooking fuel, others in housing + assets, and most regions saw big improvements to nutrition/caloric intake and very little improvement to child mortality.

78

plowman_digearth t1_isoqqtn wrote

Replying to Zekrom16 (#124,378)

How is the problem identified when the govt just straight up rejected its findings. And what superfood is the govt going to concoct to compensate for the lost protein due to their aggressive push of "vegetarianism" ?

−1

Zekrom16 t1_isoqyng wrote

Replying to plowman_digearth (#124,797)

In order to understand the Global hunger index , we need to look at its methodology.

https://www.globalhungerindex.org/pdf/en/2022.pdf

It's a peer reviewed study. So nothing shady is going on. They are very transparent about their work.

They classify their scores on the index according to 4 categories

Undernourishment: the share of the population with insufficient caloric intake. (1/3 score)

Child stunting: the share of children under age five who have low height for their age, reflecting chronic undernutrition. (1/6 score)

Child wasting: the share of children under age five who have low weight for their height, reflecting acute undernutrition. (1/6 score)

Child mortality: the share of children who die before their fifth birthday, partly reflecting the fatal mix of inadequate nutrition and unhealthy environments. (1/3 score)

https://www.globalhungerindex.org/india.html

In India's case -

35% are under nourished 19% are wasting under 5 16% are stunting under 5 3% mortality rate under 5

UNGA appreciated India for our logistics in social services. The problem plaguing India is not lack of food. But lack of quality food.

https://www.orfonline.org/research/superfood-eggs-can-help-india-fight-stunting-malnutrition/?amp

The problem India is facing can be fixed with eggs. But there is social problems associated with it. India needs to deal with this problem our own way.

The govt didn't reject it but claimed it was misleading for its name. I think I saw it on their website as well.

2

-Not-Racist- t1_isor1j9 wrote

Replying to plowman_digearth (#124,755)

Lol no, right wing just different religion. Economic policy is really the same for both. Parties actually protest against things they had in their manifesto , whoever is in opposition at the time talks about workers and poverty. Concept of left wing right wing doesn't really apply, local politicians are the same just keep switching parties to whoever pays more

4

plowman_digearth t1_isortyr wrote

Replying to -Not-Racist- (#124,816)

No. I think what made UPA decidedly left is the big bets they took on social welfare schemes like MNREGA. Every trickle down loving libertarian uncle I knew was up in arms over it. They also tackled international diplomacy very sensibly by diffusing most tensions with China and Pakistan and balancing the NATO countries with Russia.

Their expansion of the public sector and strengthening of state institutions was also a very left leaning move. The whole UPI/Aadhar/Rupay thing which the current govt takes credit for - was conceived and initiated by UPA.

1

myungskywalker18 t1_isorze6 wrote

Probably fell because they all died of hunger. Dead people aren't poor anymore they're just dead.

−8

plowman_digearth t1_isos452 wrote

Replying to Zekrom16 (#124,811)

There are no "social problems" with eggs. Egg consumption in India was on the upswing till about 2010 when the clowns in the Hindu right wing decided to make it a wedge issue. So much so that states have taken it out of the mid day meals for school children. Regardless of their religion or beliefs.

0

AlpHa_44 t1_isos4m0 wrote

Replying to red_purple_red (#123,394)

India opened it's economy in 90s under finance minister Manmohan Singh. In came lot of investments. With huge population the wages are cheap. Then came IT boom. India produces more engineers per year than most EU countries. It's snowballed from there. The India I was born is a lot different to India rn. You have to experience the change. Just in 15 years the standard of living increased a lot.

4

-Not-Racist- t1_isotbdo wrote

Replying to plowman_digearth (#124,878)

The public sector hasn't seen expansion since 1991, when liberalisation and privatisation were accepted in India post the fall of Soviet Union.

The current Government literally gives everyone 8KG food grains and cooking oil for free. Get a ration card , stand in the line and you can get it too. Tons of new social schemes like interest free loans to small businesses. Plus even added EWS to reservation. People want to be mad at BJP but can't because well religion.

Only difference between the two parties is social stance. Both equally don't give a fuck about development. Congress was unbelievably corrupt and just embezzled the money. BJP spends the money on advertisement PR and temples, which a lot of the voters actually like.

5

lemonpepsiking t1_isowzea wrote

I read that as just "people" instead of "poor people" and almost lost my mind.

3

spartan1789 t1_isp6oid wrote

Replying to ChintanP04 (#123,187)

I guess same can be said about you then? You really did contradict your own statement. Without any proof "source:- trust me bro."
What are thought on what World Bank President said then?

6

newbies13 t1_isp764y wrote

Maybe they will stop calling my grandma and asking for gift cards now. Praise Vishnu!

−6

siddharthbirdi t1_ispbx6h wrote

Replying to zethuz (#123,968)

India has had a high population since the beginning of civilization, because of the fertile river valleys of the Ganges, Sindhu and its tributaries and the Great Brahmaputra River, India can can feed itself, As is the case with China and its great river valleys.

2

KevineCove t1_ispg4c4 wrote

Replying to red_purple_red (#123,394)

The tech boom is making skilled labor a more prominent share of India's economy. Basic needs and services are required to support the demand for skilled labor, which lifts people out of (the worst of) poverty.

4

Guaranteed_username t1_ispjdxq wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#125,385)

But you can analyse and see the difference through some simple data analysis of various metrics which are available on open source ( so difficult to manipulate)... The easiest and the best is electrification of the country.. economists generally agree that as people move out of poverty, electrician increases along with it..

6

currentscurrents t1_ispku2f wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#125,850)

Did you read any of that at all?

>Some had huge improvements to drinking water, others to education, attendance, and years in education, others to things like electricity and cooking fuel, others in housing + assets, and most regions saw big improvements to nutrition/caloric intake and very little improvement to child mortality.

3

currentscurrents t1_isplb43 wrote

Replying to sharanyaaaaa (#123,548)

>Plus the poverty level data isn't updated according to sky high inflation either i.e. the income bracket you should fall in to be considered poor here.

This isn't an income-based measure of poverty like you'd use in the US, they're measuring access to real goods like food and cooking fuel. How many calories are they eating a day, do they have access to clean drinking water, etc.

We may see an temporary increase in poverty over the next few years if there is a global recession, but the long-term trendline shouldn't change.

11

Beetin t1_ispnqwv wrote

Replying to Jugales (#122,135)

Access to electricity is literally one of the metrics for calculating poverty in the model they use (it isn't poverty in a purely financial sense)

So... 100% causation by definition? A direct measurement of the value?

20

Silverfox1921 t1_ispnziw wrote

Just wait till UN gets more involved to spread democracy in India

0

dustygravelroad t1_ispxwks wrote

Call centers require a lot of employees and apparently pay ok

−1

simmmmmmer t1_isq0nam wrote

Replying to red_purple_red (#123,394)

The government of India has made some pretty sucessfull large scale initiatives in the past that have attributed to this. Micro-Loans, Electrical and plumbing subsidies to increase quality of living, household appliance subsisides, Food Subsidies (during covid indian government was giving free rations to literally hundereds of millions of people). They had an initative where they were providing LPG based furnaces to households to get people off coal cooking, many millions of people benifited from this. I remember an initaitve when I was younger wehr people were going from house to house installing free water filtration systems in peoples homes. Stuff like this increases the statistical outcome of a familial unit making it out of poverty. Little by little, by adopting a multi-faceted approach to qol imporvments, the Indian Government is attempting to reduce poverty. People are mentioning boom in the service industry but I would argue that kind of growth grows the middle class but does not bring many people into the middle class unlike the these large scale government initatives that have shown great sucess. However I would also say that becuase of the tax generation from these companies comming to india, the indian government is able to spend a lot more on initatives, so it does help, just not in the way people think. These initatives have been a target of corruption but that seems to be going down as time progresses and digital infatrcture gets adopted across indian societal sectors.

7

Rynox2000 t1_isqc6xv wrote

I think what is considered poor is what changed.

0

Grammarnazi_bot t1_isqq2dh wrote

Replying to Beetin (#124,426)

> “do you have no assets but get enough calories, attend(ed) a decent amount of school, have electricity, shelter, and basic health?” You aren’t UN humanitarian poor, just normal poor

Isn’t this almost every under-25 year old in the west who isn’t upper class?

6

JeffLaRue t1_isquvk3 wrote

Was it because of Covid 19 deaths?

−6

Fabulous_Ad5052 t1_isqxs6w wrote

How many of these poor people died from Covid? Numbers are skewed.

−2

Megs1205 t1_isr2q0l wrote

I think access for everyone getting their ID card (aadhra card) has helped the most. More people have access to banks, and phones and government help.

And yes more access to toilets also is good

1

ocpms1 t1_isr4y3y wrote

Corona deaths

−1

winonaface t1_isr7is1 wrote

Is it because they died?

−2

50Stickster t1_isr8pp6 wrote

Seems hard to believe, if it is , we need to get the people who made it possible on the talk show circuit over here asap

−1

DRbrtsn60 t1_isr9njc wrote

On the other hand here in the US homeless populations have skyrocketed.

1

Beetin t1_isra4tg wrote

Replying to Grammarnazi_bot (#128,672)

In fairness, I think it would be weirder in a capitalist country if the vast majority of people under 25 weren't independently 'poor' in an asset sense, since they've been an adult and in the workforce for only a few years.

These stats use family/household wealth and assets anyways, so that 28 year old living at home would get grouped by their parents assets and education.

Although I knew a lot of folks living dorms who probably met some of the metrics high level concepts of poverty:

  • The household has unimproved or no sanitation facility or it is improved but shared with other households.

  • The household’s source of drinking water is not safe or safe drinking water is a 30-minute or longer walk from home, roundtrip.

  • Any person under 70 years of age for whom there is nutritional information is undernourished.

  • The household does not own more than one of these assets: radio, TV, telephone, computer, animal cart, bicycle, motorbike, or refrigerator, and does not own a car or truck. (squeaking by on computer + telephone)

  • The household has inadequate housing materials in any of the three components: floor, roof, or walls.

silliness aside, that is actually part of why 'poor' people in the developed are not living in that absolute poverty, according to metrics like the MPI.

These types of metrics are used by the UN to find, study, and combat extreme, multi-faceted, acute poverty in developing countries. Here is a map of where they've done case studies for it and the results. You'll notice developed western nations ain't on it.

https://ophi.org.uk/multidimensional-poverty-index/global-mpi-databank/

5

plowman_digearth t1_isrn1np wrote

Replying to rolemodel21 (#126,649)

India is in the throes of religious fundamentalism. A portion of Hindus in half of India associate the vegetarian diet with virtue/morality. (I should point out that these people are not vegans and consume an insane amount of dairy)

In the last few years they have been in power - they have pushed vegetarianism really hard - like banning in it mid day meals at school, restricting it in state airlines and public places etc.

Previous governments had pushed egg consumption as an acceptable alternative to many Indians who were reticent to eat meat. But that's been turned back in the last decade.

India is the only country in the world where the average height of children has actually declined in the last 20 years.

1

HappyHurtzlickn t1_isrp6b1 wrote

Every change that happened in the past was historic. It's called history. Go home UN, you're drunk..

1

TurbulentPhoto3025 t1_it2qiy9 wrote

Replying to bcanddc (#123,832)

No country can, or has, maintained this type of growth with capitalism alone. There is no reason to pick and chose. This isn't a zero sum game. Capitalism, Socialism, Marxism, etc. are not mutually exclusive, and generally do work together. US propelled it's economy with a surge of socialism from the new deal. China dwarfs India's economic growth since the 90s because they have embraced mixed economics more. Mixed economics is what made the US great, won the 2nd world War, and fueled the new deal despite propaganda saying otherwise.

5

bcanddc t1_it2r0zu wrote

Replying to TurbulentPhoto3025 (#153,732)

I don't disagree with you really but capitalism is what supplies the resources to make the system work. You can't as a government give away money unless somebody made and the government took it to redistribute it. That fact can not be denied.

0

TurbulentPhoto3025 t1_it2ttwd wrote

Replying to bcanddc (#153,764)

There's more than one way to skin a cat imo. Facilitating worker productivity while maintaining efficient markets hasn't been exclusive to capitalism. From my perspective, capitalism is mainly focused on putting the productivity gains from workers in the pocket of capitalist, leading to large income inequality and consequently power inequality, which makes economies leaning too much on capitalism unable to sustain functioning democracies. US capitalist have always had disproportionate power, but as inequality grows, I don't think normal people even have the illusion they have any meaningful control over their government.

3

bcanddc t1_it2vec2 wrote

Replying to TurbulentPhoto3025 (#153,969)

Crony Capitalism and capitalism are not the same. Term limits and an end to corporate political donations/bribes ends that but still keeps the mechanisms that drive innovation and productivity.

1

TurbulentPhoto3025 t1_it3ar61 wrote

Replying to bcanddc (#154,078)

The old euphemism is true. Money is power. Acute income inequality inevitably ends in power inequality. Crony capitalism is a by product of countries that lean too much on capitalism. Our oligarchs/capitalist, like Gates and Bezos, buy our media or control our communication via social media like here to completely control the narrative for example. Big government, big corporations, big oligarchs, etc., it's all worthy concern, but most have blinders to one or two of these items.

3