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Dr-Chibi t1_j0i2a2i wrote

I read that as a Vaccine Against February…

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agaperion OP t1_j0i2tne wrote

Some people really hate Valentine's Day.

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AAA515 t1_j0jn6u9 wrote

Dude, valentines day, then my birthday, on top of the lack of sun light, the being trapped inside by the cold.... fuck February

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Grand-wazoo t1_j0i3rzk wrote

This is not uplifting, it’s a ridiculously misguided attempt at treating a symptom instead of holding the actual drug manufacturers accountable for the untold damages they continue to cause.

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agaperion OP t1_j0i4x7b wrote

Are those two approaches toward addressing this issue mutually exclusive? And are either one plausibly regarded as a silver bullet solution?

Or is this a complex problem that's going to require multiple remedies working in conjunction to address all contributing factors?

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WhollyHolyWholeHole t1_j0i9056 wrote

How dare you try to make sense on Reddit! Shame! Shame on you! Be gone from me!

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all_worcestershire t1_j0iu9e0 wrote

Pretty sure most illicit fent is made by criminals. We’ve been trying to hold them accountable for 40 years. Those sly criminals keep getting away.

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BoxOfDemons t1_j0m0lbg wrote

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought most street fentanyl is coming from China.

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Scraw16 t1_j0m5h21 wrote

I think that was the case a few years ago, but more recently it’s shifted to mainly from Mexico

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ChemsAndCutthroats t1_j0iy0cg wrote

It's all a result of the war on drugs and of course pharmaceutical companies like Purdue that profit off of addiction. Once the feds started cracking down on opioid prescriptions fentanyl became a cheap alternative. Manufactured in clandestine labs in China, far easier to traffic than heroin. The feds need to step back and the focus needs to be on harm reduction, access to treatment, and education.

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Aspel t1_j0jyqt2 wrote

Honestly blaming the drug manufacturers is also treating the symptom instead of the cause.

People turn to drugs to relieve pain. These people will still be in pain whether the fentanyl exists or not. You're not solving their problem by taking away their medicine.

And frankly there's also the issue that fentanyl is a spooky boogeyman that cops can have seizures over just by looking at and die from touching, so everyone treats it as if it exists only for killing people.

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cKMG365 t1_j0jzbzh wrote

I inject people with fentanyl quite a bit. Several times per week.

It's a great medicine for use by paramedics.

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Ibecolin t1_j0liou3 wrote

I work in the cath lab. I go through dozens of fentanyl vials a day.

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WestCoastSurfGod t1_j0jd28y wrote

That ship has sailed. We still have this problem. It transcends class and race. Fentanyl is a menace.

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PresentationJumpy101 t1_j0o1mbt wrote

Maybe let’s crisper future humans to be highly resistant to addiction!

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WestCoastSurfGod t1_j0o5smd wrote

Unfortunately addiction has less to do with the substance and more to do with emotional pain. The opposite of addiction is human connection.

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PresentationJumpy101 t1_j0o9kwh wrote

Kind of a vicious cycle right, emotional pain increases the desire to use, the substance itself causes structural changes…sober brings intense discomfort, use again…

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WestCoastSurfGod t1_j0o9w8t wrote

Until you’re tired of it and you want to do something different. Process the pain, heal, surround yourself with uplifting people, learn coping skills, take up new hobbies. Unlearning bad habits and practicing good ones.

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WittyUnwittingly t1_j0j6ph8 wrote

As someone who very much dislikes opioids (qualitatively), but might like to partake in a nonzero amount of other recreational substances, not worrying about inadvertently nodding off and dying would be nice.

Obviously this is gross oversimplification, and there are tons of precautions one can take against accidentally ingesting anything laced with fentanyl, but I have no use for opioids; I would gladly pay some pharmaceutical company hundreds of dollars to permanently remove any recreational/therapeutic potential from opioids in exchange for immunity from incidental opioid overdose. Is it possible that I would regret that decision later if I got into a really nasty car accident, for example? Yes, and I'm willing to live with that, and I don't even have tattoos.

I see this as a win, even if it isn't pulling addicts up out of the gutters and fixing their problems.

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Dumbledoordash8008 t1_j0jsa3q wrote

The main drug manufacturers are Chinese and they distribute through cartels. To fight that would require a war with china so the next best thing is to try to keep people from dying.

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agaperion OP t1_j0k4yvn wrote

>try to keep people from dying

This is even better than an antidote; It's being referred to as a vaccine because it actually stimulates immunity to fentanyl. That means there'd be no point in taking it and no point in using it to cut other drugs because it would be inert, altogether negating its function as a cutting agent.

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Dumbledoordash8008 t1_j0k51h1 wrote

You’re right I was just being simplistic. Admittedly I read the article after commenting.

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AftyOfTheUK t1_j0lwc5b wrote

>instead of holding the actual drug manufacturers accountable

Ermm... the manufacturers of the Fentanyl causing all these deaths aren't exactly listed on the NYSE

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WestCoastSurfGod t1_j0jcwdi wrote

Great news for not just addicts but also first responders and police.

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Mallenaut t1_j0ke10y wrote

Please don't believe the bogus about throwing Fentanyl at police officers resulting in intoxication.

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WestCoastSurfGod t1_j0kql9c wrote

Police and paramedics are intoxicated while inadvertently handling it during the course of their duties.

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No-Bandicoot7132 t1_j0kuwgk wrote

From my understanding that is not the case. " Skin exposure is NOT likely to lead to toxicity through absorption" from vdh.Virginia.gov just Google fentanyl exposure skin contact

John oliver did a piece on the subject actually

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WestCoastSurfGod t1_j0kv1s4 wrote

Nobody said anything about skin exposure. It’s a fine powder. Look, people will want this vaccine for a myriad of reasons. It’s down to personal choice.

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Girafferage t1_j0kexpp wrote

They will still overreact to being exposed to it, because just like before, it can't be absorbed through your skin. You have to intentionally take it. Police that pretend to react to it are almost certainly having panic attacks because of fear of it due to insanely low understanding of how it works.

Honestly this vaccine could just be a piece of wood. "Bite down on this and avoid injecting anything into your body and you can't be exposed to fentanyl".

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danielv123 t1_j0l9xaj wrote

Except it could also helps addicts for example, or people who are exposed to it other ways (is spiking drinks with it a thing?)

I am sure quite a few people would want this.

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Girafferage t1_j0lezxn wrote

For sure. But in the case of police coming into contact with it, it means next to nothing, since they weren't affected to begin with.

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BoxOfDemons t1_j0m0f62 wrote

It can be absorbed through skin. They make fentanyl patches. I'm not saying it absorbs great through the skin, or that there's any risk getting a small amount on you as a first responder, but they do in fact make fentanyl skin patches.

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sharkpilot t1_j0m552t wrote

They make nicotine patches too, but you're not satisfying your cigarette craving by rubbing a handful of loose tobacco on your arm.

The patches are a preparation specifically designed to be absorbed through the skin. Other forms do not work the same way.

First responders need to take precautions to protect themselves from myriad things, but the threat of "skin absorbed fentanyl" is incredibly low. The stories you hear are largely overblown attempts to score some copaganda points and perpetuate an ineffectual "War on Drugs." It's not about keeping officers safe, it's about maintaining funding.

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BoxOfDemons t1_j0m8hgw wrote

>The patches are a preparation specifically designed to be absorbed through the skin. Other forms do not work the same way.

It's just normal fentanyl and I believe some patches heat up slightly because that helps absorbtion. The thing is, the patches stay on for DAYS because of how slow the absorbtion of fentanyl is through the skin. But they've been known to kill children.

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juan-love t1_j0kwcw0 wrote

Fentanyl can be snorted or ingested too though?

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Girafferage t1_j0l2fmg wrote

Not if there is blocks of wood in your nose and mouth. Blocks of wood are OP

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MileysMooseKnuckle t1_j0ljtpk wrote

And also pretty useless for hospitals.

Fentanyl is used as a medicine for a huge list of things but importantly anesthesia, because the body still responds to pain even when unconscious and blocking that can have a few benefits, but importantly it can remove reflexive movements and limit inflammation (no signals for injury, no immediate response by the body).

It's also used because its got a wider range of dosage than morphine, as in you can get effects with a smaller dose while weaker concentrations have both a lower minimum dose and higher maximum dose.

Having people who are unaffected by it could cause issues in hospitals.

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agaperion OP t1_j0lsky0 wrote

Assuming for the sake of discussion that this is only given to addicts so they can break their addiction then I don't think that would be any more of a strain on hospitals than preexisting exceptions demanding special consideration, such as allergies and natural treatment resistance. It's already common for people to know when they can't be administered a given medication and to inform first responders and doctors. It's also already common for that information to sometimes not be provided and for a patient's treatment to fail. Unfortunate, yes. But also, we weigh these sorts of cost-benefit considerations all the time. It comes with the territory of living in a society. The possibility of that occasional misfortune doesn't seem to outweigh the benefit of helping millions and potentially ending the fentanyl crisis.

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SanguineBanker t1_j0l8rmr wrote

Talk about a real game changer. I wonder if this would work on other families of drugs.

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angiosperms- t1_j0lug77 wrote

Doesn't this already exist? Vivitrol is an injection that people get to help stay sober that blocks opioid receptors so you can't get high. I mean this one works biologically in a different way, but it sounds like it's doing the same thing.

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Myrtilys_ t1_j0j61hy wrote

How is this a vaccine?

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agaperion OP t1_j0k44vo wrote

It's explained in the article:

>The immunized animals could produce anti-fentanyl antibodies that stop the drug’s effects, allowing it to exit out of the body via the kidneys. This blocks the “high” caused by fentanyl, and it would theoretically make it easier for people to quit using the drug or avoid a relapse.

The study: An Immunconjugate Vaccine Alters Distribution and Reduces the Antinociceptive, Behavioral and Physiological Effects of Fentanyl in Male and Female Rats

The Wikipedia on conjugate vaccines.

In short, it causes immunity to fentanyl (i.e. immunization). Ergo, it's a vaccine.

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WikiSummarizerBot t1_j0k467z wrote

Conjugate vaccine

>A conjugate vaccine is a type of subunit vaccine which combines a weak antigen with a strong antigen as a carrier so that the immune system has a stronger response to the weak antigen. Vaccines are used to prevent diseases by invoking an immune response to an antigen, part of a bacterium or virus that the immune system recognizes. This is usually accomplished with an attenuated or dead version of a pathogenic bacterium or virus in the vaccine, so that the immune system can recognize the antigen later in life. Most vaccines contain a single antigen that the body will recognize.

^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

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FireflyAdvocate t1_j0m2nez wrote

What happens if you have taken the vaccine and need surgery?

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StoneTwin t1_j0oxxwp wrote

My guess is a different cocktail of anesthetics?

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Steelersguy74 t1_j0klrqe wrote

Does this mean we won’t get anymore sympathy propaganda from the police?

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DippyHippy420 t1_j0lr2zw wrote

So if you received the vaccine would you be able to OD on fentanyl or not ?

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eheyburn t1_j0lm1ux wrote

OMG! The MAGAts are going to go crazy.

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FrillySteel t1_j0lptj4 wrote

"i'M nOt pUtTiNg ThAt UnTeStEd sHiT iN mAh BoDiE!!"

/s

−1

Aspel t1_j0jyk3u wrote

Not only is that absolute fucking nonsense, it's not really all that uplifting either.

You can't vaccinate against something that isn't a disease.

−6

danielv123 t1_j0la1fj wrote

Apparently you can. This makes the immune system neutralize the fentanyl, which is the definition of a vaccine.

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Aspel t1_j0n98bx wrote

vac·cine

>/vakˈsēn,ˈvakˌsēn/

>noun

>1. a substance used to stimulate immunity to a particular infectious disease or pathogen, typically prepared from an inactivated or weakened form of the causative agent or from its constituents or products.

Fentanyl is not a disease or pathogen, and I don't this is made with inactive fentanyl.

Are you thinking perhaps of an antidote?

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[deleted] t1_j0hoiur wrote

[removed]

−31

princess_kittah t1_j0hprw8 wrote

oh yeah, lets not endeavour towards any more medical innovations at all because they'll probably be used improperly /s

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agaperion OP t1_j0hvnd7 wrote

Every new scientific and technological advance comes with risk. Pretty much everything in life comes with risk. But that's no reason to give up on seeking solutions to the challenges we face.

Medicine is moving in the direction of things like bioengineering. It's not going away. Same with our fears over AI and nuclear energy; We need to set aside our fears and develop safeguards so we can implement these technologies responsibly. Burying our heads in the sand leaves the task to less cautious people who aren't going to burden themselves with responsible research.

And on top of all that, we've spent decades leaving these problems to the cops. Look how well that's worked out. Maybe it's time to put down the guns and consider scientific solutions. We lost the "War On Drugs" because it's not a problem that makes sense using a metaphor of combat. But it is almost certainly a problem that makes sense when considered as a matter of health and well-being. Which is why we've begun to use terms like "addiction epidemic", etc.

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BucBrady t1_j0i0uyb wrote

I mean... What do you think would go wrong?

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StupidizeMe t1_j0j64xa wrote

Are you serious? Criminals are adding Fentanyl to other drugs to make them much more addictive, guaranteeing there are enough desperate addicts to make them very rich. Right now they add just a speck of Fentanyl (which of course is plenty deadly.)

But if drug dealers no longer have to worry about accidentally KILLING THEIR OWN CUSTOMERS - thus killing their own long-term profits - they'll be free to add MORE FENTANYL TO MORE PRODUCTS. All they care about is 💰💰💰💰💰.

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agaperion OP t1_j0jaold wrote

Sounds like you didn't even read the article.

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Zealousideal_Role189 t1_j0imfpd wrote

I think they meant that the people who really need this treatment are probably the same people who typically dig their heels in over getting vaccinations.

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iamhalsey t1_j0j1a4i wrote

I’m completely baffled by this statement. Where on Earth did you get the idea that the majority or even a statistically significant number of people suffering fentanyl overdoses are anti-vaxxers?

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Zealousideal_Role189 t1_j0j2ttx wrote

Because there’s a ton of opioid abuse and overdosing in rural areas and particularly in the South. I’m thinking of West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and Louisiana.

And don’t get too worked up. I was just floating a second potential interpretation of the earlier comment.

0