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Matt3989 t1_j7ptn0q wrote

For those who don't know, Baltimore Students can apply to go to any Middle or High School in the City. The program concentrates academic performance levels; The best schools are good, and the worst schools are very very bad.

Students who even remotely values their education (and often their safety) are not going to find themselves in one of the schools mentioned here.

I could go on and on about complaints I have with BCPS, but I just thought that people should understand that this stat is exacerbated by the School Choice Program.

Edit: Not to say that the School Choice Program is bad. It allows students from some of the worse neighborhoods a chance for social and economic mobility, and it allows parents with the means to go elsewhere to still feel comfortable raising a child in public schools here.

It is also very much a: "Leave Entire Schools of Students Behind" program. The Wire had it 100% right here, by the time a student hits middle school, it's too late for intervention.

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umbligado t1_j7pw41f wrote

True. But it’s odd to me that Baltimore School For The Arts, a magnet high school, is one of the “zero” schools. Sure it’s tempting to make the assumption that an arts school wouldn’t do well on math, but these kids are actually pretty talented, well rounded academically, and many come from affluent households. Is something off with the reporting? Am I missing something? It simply seems weird.

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todareistobmore t1_j7q9go0 wrote

> Is something off with the reporting?

Yes. The reporting says they got data on 2000 students from 23 schools, which is obviously incomplete.

But also apparently the 8th grade proficiency level in 2021 was 6.5% statewide, so the actual difference in the city numbers probably isn't bigger than you'd expect based on pre-pandemic years.

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Matt3989 t1_j7pymn9 wrote

Good Point. Same with Carver being a "1% of student's proficient in Math" school, I'm guessing there's some factor in how/when scores are reported here.

But because it's Fox, they'll never link their data.

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theyoungbloody t1_j7q1h2y wrote

I hate Fox too, but they literally say in the article where they got their data from > The Maryland State Department of Education recently released the 2022 state test results known as MCAP, Maryland Comprehensive Assessment Program.

Hell its even in the photo they have in the article

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Mysterious_Table19 t1_j7q3xjv wrote

If you go to the state website the math scores for 2022 are not available yet (only English). Also if you go to the 2021 data some of the schools listed (e.g. Mervo) had barely anyone take the exam (which would make sense since it is for grades 3-8).

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Matt3989 t1_j7q275n wrote

And the Link?

I went to the MCAP Website and the MD Board of Ed. Website and neither have access to the data.

Sure it says that Baltimore School for the Arts was one of 150 schools to give the MCAP test, but did they really give it? How many scores did they report?

Or did they just sign up for it and never end up giving it? My SO has given these tests to her classes, and the technology issues from Pearson often end up causing the test to be a lost cause.

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theyoungbloody t1_j7q41d6 wrote

Books dont provide links for sources either even after they cite their sources, are they not valid then?

But fine here you go, heres the data: https://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/DataDownloads/FileDownload/458

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Matt3989 t1_j7q65qh wrote

Great, now show me where that the data is that supports these claims:

Here's what you linked, sorted by Baltimore City schools reporting anything.

What data was Fox using and why isn't their dataset available?

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FrankieRedFlash t1_j7qagwp wrote

Not being a troll just curious after reading the thread what your point is. Do you think if Fox linked to whatever data they used it would show that the kids are proficient in math?

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Matt3989 t1_j7qe9dz wrote

I think that they are misrepresenting whatever data they have.

MCAP has Math testing for grades 1-8, Algebra 1, 2, and Geometry.

So I'd be interested to know what criteria they're using to measure High school and Elementary school proficiency. This strikes me as nothing more than another 'Project Baltimore' gotcha piece to appeal to their base (majority of whom probably aren't proficient enough in math to grasp statistics).

If it's not? Why aren't they providing the data and methodology.

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theyoungbloody t1_j7qadgd wrote

You asked for data, I provided it. Interpret it how you wish. I'm not here to argue with you.

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Matt3989 t1_j7qbzip wrote

You gave me some data, and tried to pass it off as the Data that Fox was using, but even given a cursory glance it's clearly not. For example, Baltimore School for the Arts isn't even in the set you linked, not even as an asterisk.

So you give me some edgey remark about how "books don't link their data hurr hurr hurr" then condescendingly try to show something that supports your case... and it doesn't.

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ConcreteThinking t1_j7qdask wrote

Not trolling I am genuinely interested in your point. Are you saying since it's a Fox news story there are really fewer than 23 schools that have no students proficient in math? If so how much do you think they are lying. Two schools, ten, all proficient?

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Matt3989 t1_j7qfpac wrote

I think that they are misrepresenting whatever data they have.

MCAP has Math testing for grades 1-8, Algebra 1, 2, and Geometry. The results are not broken down by age. What criteria are they using for "High School Proficiency"

Judging based on other "Project Baltimore" pieces, I would be very hesitant to trust anything from them. If their numbers are solid, why not include data and methodology?

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ConcreteThinking t1_j7qhrru wrote

Maybe so. The one chart from Md Board of Ed they include in the article shows that the average in the city is 7% proficient in math. I guess some schools could be at 0% and others higher since it is an average. Pretty bad. Even the highest scoring county in the state, Carroll, only managed to teach 38% of their students to a proficient level.

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theyoungbloody t1_j7qj8vv wrote

Dude, I agree with you its weird, I'm not trying to fight you on that.

You asked for the source, I gave it to you, then you started asking me questions about it, which I dont know.

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Mysterious_Table19 t1_j7qq8w9 wrote

These is the "English-Alternate" " and the "Mathematics-Alternate" exams; whatever that means.

Just for context it seems like essentially no one took the "Mathematics-Alternate" exam anywhere in the state (no school had more than 58 tests taken most had none).

Hardly surprising no schools had anyone proficient if no one actually took it.

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Acceptable-Mountain t1_j7rqjru wrote

BSA has different entrance criteria that looks more at portfolio/audition than their academic record. The reasoning being that kids can be gifted artistically, but struggle academically. Add to that the whole effing pandemic and the flawed sample size, and it makes sense to me.

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Animanialmanac t1_j7q0cer wrote

That’s not completely true, schools that meet their Annual Yearly Progress are open to applications from any student, the lower scoring schools are not open to applications. Also, schools don’t have to accept every student who applies, this means the schools that don’t meet AYP are filled with local students only, while the better schools can accept the better students and keep getting better. It creates a downward spiral for schools, once the AYP isn’t met no students from outside the catchment area can apply, if the school is in a bad area then you have children from a bad area stuck going to the school in the bad area.

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Matt3989 t1_j7q1mrb wrote

All students can apply elsewhere, not all schools can take applications. It doesn't change my point.

No one is applying to get into Edmonson.

>if the school is in a bad area then you have children from a bad area stuck going to the school in the bad area.

No you don't, because those students can apply elsewhere, it's the school that cannot take outside students (which none would be applying anyway).

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Animanialmanac t1_j7qjhr2 wrote

You lost me with your example, Edmondson-Westside is an application school, students apply to go there.

My point is that students from a bad area have less opportunity during elementary school, test lower, and are less likely to be accepted into better middle and high schools. These students then have to go the middle and high school in their catchment area. So those schools that didn’t meet AYP can’t improve averages by bringing in students from out of the area, and also have the students from the lower performing elementary schools. It’s a downward spiral, that’s my point.

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Matt3989 t1_j7qsevc wrote

Many application schools don't have any testing criteria to get into, particular on the Middle school level.

Furthermore, parents of elementary school kids can apply to have their kids go to schools outside of their zone.

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Significant_Jump_21 t1_j7rdqt2 wrote

>Furthermore, parents of elementary school kids can apply to have their kids go to schools outside of their zone.

I just made another post about Edmondson-Westside. Tbf I don't think most paents in that area can get their kids to schools outside the zone. I live close to there. It's car centric but not a lot of car owners.

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