Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

JonWilso t1_jaa244e wrote

Two things pretty much always come up when the topic of a dirt bike park is mentioned and it's really unfortunate but the sad truth.

  1. A large majority of the dirt bikes you see being illegally driven around the city are stolen. The counties surrounding Baltimore have a significant problem with overnight garage burglaries in which they're loaded by the dozen into stolen box trucks.

.

  1. A big part of the culture seems to be the thrill of riding them on the streets where no one can stop you. (Doesn't mean there aren't kids who I'm sure would still love the opportunity for a legitimate park) but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people still choose not to use it.
70

username_0420 t1_jaa56me wrote

Just like skaters and skateparks. They built that park by the science center, but I’d rather hit up the street spots so I see what you’re getting at. As for number 1, this is the real problem. A friend of mine tried to sell his dirt bike, dude tried to steal it but wasn’t anticipating my friend to have a big turboed car. Called the cops and chased him to a dead end. They ended up finding a dude with a trailer that had a couple more bikes in the back already

19

pandacorn t1_jacekjz wrote

I dunno, the hampden skatepark gets a lot of use. Seems like the only people really using roosevelt park sometimes. I get wanting to street skate as well, but If I still skated I would love to go to a skatepark nearby.

6

YoYoMoMa t1_jacvn3b wrote

>A large majority of the dirt bikes you see being illegally driven around the city are stolen.

"This confirms what I want to believe so I will believe it despite evidence showing about one in five are stolen."

−2

DfcukinLite t1_jaabegz wrote

Do you have the date on your claims I’d love to see a source?

−4

Timmah_1984 t1_jaadkgk wrote

“Of the 420 dirt bikes police have seized since the launch of the task force, 88 were stolen, said Baltimore Detective David Jones. Many of the stolen bikes have been ripped off from dealerships and private owners in the suburbs around Baltimore County and from as far away as Pennsylvania and Virginia.”

So that’s about 20 percent that were stolen. Link below:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/dirt-bike-dealers-battling-brazen-wheelie-boys-in-thefts/2017/07/01/088b454c-5cd1-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html

10

DfcukinLite t1_jaafl70 wrote

Yeah I read this in 2017 when it came out. 20% isn’t a “large majority”

9

marylandmymaryland t1_jaagkqz wrote

If 1 in 5 cars in Baltimore were stolen, would you say the same thing?

4

DfcukinLite t1_jaah9kf wrote

I would say 20% is not the majority or a large percentage. I would also say it also doesn’t substantiate the claims made here .

7

Jrbobfishman t1_jaawdjp wrote

It’s way more than that. They can’t officially count the ones with the serial numbers ground off as stolen

5

Moongdss74 t1_jac9g4x wrote

that's only the percentage of bikes seized. I think the percentage would skew higher if they recovered more bikes.

3

DfcukinLite t1_jac9rpo wrote

I’m asking for facts and hard numbers. Not what you “think”

1

SCLSU-Mud-Dogs t1_jacqo1n wrote

You're not asking for facts and hard numbers and you're not asking for what u/Moongdss74 thinks so what are you asking for? Are you asking for people to define entitlements again?

1

Random-Cpl t1_jaaina6 wrote

Yes he’d absolutely say the same thing, because one in five is not in any way a majority

6

EfficiencySuch6361 t1_jaay074 wrote

It’s less than 50% so it can’t be a majority at all, let alone a large majority. It’s not even halfway there

2

marylandmymaryland t1_jaah0c3 wrote

shut up, nerd.

−2

DfcukinLite t1_jaahivk wrote

I only everyone in this thread made up numbers. They do it daily. That’s why I request sourced data, not lies and feelings

5

Nelson_Gremdella t1_jac3q50 wrote

Would it make you feel better if whoever upset you edited their post from “large majority” to “roughly 20%”?

Is that your real issue here?

−2

DfcukinLite t1_jac56dd wrote

The real issue is no claim made here is backed by facts.

4

Nelson_Gremdella t1_jac6ozd wrote

I hear you, and I agree. Throwing incorrect numbers around to back up your claims is wrong.

You have been successful in demonstrating to readers that possibly 20% of the dirt bikes are stolen, rather than “a large majority.”

Personally, I don’t think whether or not the bike was stolen is “the” problem. “The” problem is kids riding dirt bikes illegally in the city and endangering the public.

I feel like those who’ve taken it upon themselves to prove to the world that only a few of the dirt bikes are stolen got lost down a go-nowhere alleyway (motorcycle theft).

Isn’t the real issue the fact that the dirt bikes are ridden illegally?

That plus 20% stolen makes the OP’s venture one absolutely no one is putting any money into, ever.

The 20% stolen is just sugar on top of why no one wants to invest in something like this.

4

YoYoMoMa t1_jacvt79 wrote

> “The” problem is kids riding dirt bikes illegally in the city and endangering the public.

How many people in the public have been hurt by them?

3

DfcukinLite t1_jaca5kc wrote

Those 2 things have nothing to do with which other. Because plenty of people have had these every same idea, regardless of the 20% or what you feel.

1

MotoSlashSix t1_jacaafo wrote

But that’s not the problem the commenter cited. The comment starting all this back and forth over numbers cites as literally the #1 issue the idea that a “large majority" of the bikes ridden illegally are stolen. When someone begins with a false premise people who disagree with their conclusion are going to question that premise. That is natural. If you don't have a factual premise your argument is a house of cards.

If it’s a red herring (or “sugar”) why even bring it up?

IMO that claim reads like an ad hominem. And here's why: Let's say we knew for certain that 100% of the bikes being used were bought legally; would that make the street riding any better/safer? Of course not. Unsafe riding is unsafe riding. (aside: I've been riding motorcycles for over 15 years and I'm not aware of anything proving a stolen motorcycle is less safe than a legally purchased one. Seems like that would be covered in the MSF Motorcycle Safety Course. The pavement hurts just as bad when you land after a high-side at speed regardless of how you got your bike)

If the issue upsetting folks is unsafe street riding, then providing a non-street place to ride is a good starting point. So debate that idea on the issues that you can verify; not dubious numbers and ad hominem attacks leveled at the riders.

1

Nelson_Gremdella t1_jaexjja wrote

I’m pretty sure you and I are on the same page about whether the bike is stolen or not has no effect on the fact that it’s being ridden illegally and dangerously. It doesn’t.

The sugar on top part, I’ll explain.

OP is making a suggestion to try and make some positive moves in this city with regards to this particular issue.

The poster you’re referring to entered the discussion, implied that this topic and this particular solution has been discussed before, and listed two things that always come up.

One of those things was over exaggerated.

You or someone else pulled some statistics and proved that rather than “a large majority,” only 20% of these dirt bikes are stolen.

Congratulations to whoever that was. Seriously.

However, that does absolutely nothing to change the fact that this topic and this particular solution has been discussed before and two specific things always come up.

To simplify, no one is investing in a bike park (OP’s suggestion) if there’s a possibility 20% of the bikes in there are stolen. That’s like throwing money away.

I don’t understand the race baiting.

1

JonWilso t1_jaabp0l wrote

Just Google "Baltimore stolen dirbtikes" and you'll get what you're looking for.

−3

DfcukinLite t1_jaabydg wrote

I did. There’s nothing with any official data backing your claim. Just vague stories. Do you have something with numbers because I’d like to see numbers.

1

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaa5g49 wrote

> A large majority of the dirt bikes you see being illegally driven around the city are stolen.

So is there any actual stats on this or is it just one of those assumptions that's made because of 'who' is ridding the bikes?

−14

Scrilla_Gorilla_ t1_jaa9mxh wrote

Just because the person riding it paid for it doesn’t mean the bike isn’t stolen. And sure, I’ll make an assumption on the who. I’ll assume the people who brazenly break the law by riding non street legal bikes through the heart of downtown in large groups right in front of police officers are more likely to be ok with stealing or receiving stolen property.

18

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaaediz wrote

> And sure, I’ll make an assumption on the who

Nice of you to admit it at least...

−18

Due-Net-88 t1_jaa8f0d wrote

Try googling? Yes when the dirt bike task force confiscates bikes anywhere from 25-50% are stolen bikes. Not that you couldn’t have looked that up yourself.

9

CaptainObvious110 t1_jaah13j wrote

It doesn't matter if they are stolen or not. https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/what-does-a-dirt-bike-need-to-be-street-legal/

6

imperaman t1_jaaqip7 wrote

Exactly. Most people don't seem to understand that every single dirt bike (except those that have undergone conversion kits) is illegal to ride on public roads. Dual-sport bikes are obviously an exception.

10

DfcukinLite t1_jaacfs0 wrote

Hmm Not seeing anything citing 25%-50% figures

1

Due-Net-88 t1_jaafkl8 wrote

Of the 420 dirt bikes police have seized since the launch of the task force, 88 were stolen, said Baltimore Detective David Jones. 21%

Police seized a total of 15 dirt bikes and ATV’s of which six were stolen and three had obliterated serial numbers. 60%

During their investigation, officers recovered two dirt bikes. One of the bikes had been previously reported stolen in Southern Maryland. 50%

Or. I just know how math works.

3

todareistobmore t1_jabasam wrote

> Or. I just know how math works.

Discarding over 95% of your data because it doesn't fit your claim is not, typically, how math works.

−1

MotoSlashSix t1_jaagm8n wrote

Your own numbers average out to about 43%.

Not a “large majority.” Not even a majority. But hey, you “know how math works” so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

−5

Due-Net-88 t1_jaah6ab wrote

Where the fuck did I say “large majority”. Cite that for me. Thanks. And by the by… 43% is HUGE. If 43% of cars on the road were stolen that might make the news at least or something.

7

iamthesam2 t1_jabx0t5 wrote

did you really just waste a minute of your time to write the dumbest comment i’ve ever read?

7

MotoSlashSix t1_jac9mwg wrote

Ad hominems don’t prove shit. Show me this “large majority”.

−7

iamthesam2 t1_jad3r3o wrote

you do realize you just demonstrated exactly how smart you are. thanks for that!

2

Douseigh t1_jabykjy wrote

Bro you are the most annoying poster on this sub.

Data is not everything. When you learn about data you will learn this.

1

DfcukinLite t1_jac51i6 wrote

Data is everything. Bs numbers and feelings aren’t

−1

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaae6wp wrote

Notice how the best they got is that "most" just gets bumped down to 30%

0

DfcukinLite t1_jaabixo wrote

So where’s the Google source

−2

needleinacamelseye t1_jaad7r2 wrote

"Police say 29 percent of seized dirt bikes in Baltimore are stolen."

5

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaadrvk wrote

I love how there's no attrition to that stat, just 'police say' and now suddenly ya'll willing to believe everything the BPD says....

Also the OP said 'most' and 29% is not 'most'.

1

DfcukinLite t1_jaaf8a9 wrote

Yeah, that doesn’t substantiate any claims made. This is from 2013 there’s no one data. “Police say” well where’s the hard numbers… police say a lot of things

2

CaptainObvious110 t1_jaaa4qn wrote

What dirt bike task force?

−2

abooth43 t1_jaadk0t wrote

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/officials-form-task-force-to-address-dirt-bikes-in-baltimore/7101650

It's old, prob not active anymore. But it existed supposedly.

6

CaptainObvious110 t1_jaagla0 wrote

Thanks to the absolutely wonderful Mr's Mosby and company the police are not to interfere with their activities. All they can do is watch and monitor them like they do every week at Pratt Street.

By now where they congregate is very well known.

4

YorickTheCat t1_jaau86o wrote

Last week there was a cop heading north on MLK Jr. Blvd, flanked on both sides and behind by a group of about 15 guys on dirt bikes popping wheelies and what not.

6

CaptainObvious110 t1_jaaxhzn wrote

Yeah I saw them give the police the finger on Pratt st last Thursday. They know the police can't do anything and take full advantage of it.

5

MotoSlashSix t1_jaafkpl wrote

The claim was that “a large majority” of the bikes are stolen. Your claim is it’s 25-50% of them. So which is it? Because 25-50% is not “a large majority.“

−4

Due-Page384 t1_jaa8xun wrote

Nah, it’s just easier to call you racist. Thanks though!

−7

CaptainObvious110 t1_jaadf1w wrote

It's not racist to call out people who are deliberately being obnoxious, not in the least. It doesn't matter if they are black, white, polkadot or whatever. Dumb is dumb and needs to be dealt with accordingly.

I get so sick to death of people throwing out the word "racist" in an effort to take away someone's credibility just because they are of a different race than the folks doing dumb stuff. I know personally I will call stuff out regardless of what color someone is because again wrong is wrong.

Unfortunately there is so much division in this country either they have the mentality that black people can do no wrong, or they feel that all of us are a problem. There simply isn't any nuance no middle ground at all. Like somehow we can't help but do things to piss everyone else off and that's just not true. Just because something is a part of local culture, doesn't mean that you just accept the negative aspects of it or condone the actions of the people doing it.

5

Due-Page384 t1_jaaglbj wrote

Lol. I was being sarcastic and making a joke about the lightly veiled racist comment above, and exactly how unhelpful that is.

For getting so upset about division, you sure seem to be trying to drive a lot of it at someone who agrees with you.

0

CaptainObvious110 t1_jaalrq4 wrote

This is text communication so sometimes things that are intended don't come across as intended. Happens to me all the time.

Also, to be honest I would have assumed that the bikes were stolen as well and I think that's a reasonable assumption to make as well. Doesn't have to be a matter of race at all, in this case though all of the young men I've seen doing this whether here in Baltimore or in DC are black.

Needless to say that if they were white or hispanic the issue would still be the same.

2

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaez2k5 wrote

> I would have assumed that the bikes were stolen as well and I think that's a reasonable assumption to make as well.

No it's not.

>Needless to say that if they were white or hispanic the issue would still be the same.

No it isn't. I've been riding for 40 years, from dirt bikes to street bikes to cruisers. When I was a kid I did all the same things these kids are doing now on public streets. Hell I rode my dirt bike to elementary school. I've had many angry screaming people come out to yell at me in the street over that I was doing, and you know what none of them ever accused me of... stealing my bike. I did however see a kid who legitimately borrowed a friends bike get stoped by the school administrator who demanded he tell him 'where he got his bike from'. But that kid was darker than me.

I've been at bike nights showing off my bike and would get questions about wether or not I did my own build, while my ridding acquaintance sitting next to me got questions of 'where'd you get this'. You can guess the difference between to two of us.

I've run from the cops breaking up street races a couple of times. And each time cops waved me through the permitter they had set up, while the stopped the rest to check their paperwork. You can guess the difference once again.

I could go on and on with examples I've actually seen. But there is definitely a general assumption made that black riders steal their bikes and it is not the "same" and made for the rest of us.

−1

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaagekj wrote

If someone is going to say that "most" of a group of black people have stolen something without any proof, you're damn right I'm going to call that racist and that's not where the "division' is coming from.

Perhaps the "division" is the assumption black people only steal stuff in the first place.

−2

Douseigh t1_jabyi58 wrote

They’re mostly stolen, if u live in the area for more than a year and actually know locals of all races you’d know already. Not everything has numbers and data to be true

6

JonWilso t1_jaa9xrz wrote

I understand that it does sound like something someone would throw around just to point the finger, but it's true.

1

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaae0se wrote

There are no stats in that story.

2

JonWilso t1_jaaf206 wrote

You need hard stats to make the connection here?

No one has hard stats on the current percentage of stolen dirbtikes on the road. You can however reference the dozens upon dozens of articles regarding them being stolen and found in Baltimore.

3

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaafjd9 wrote

Yea I need hard stats to assume "most" of them are stolen like OP said. But let me guess, you can just 'look at them and tell' huh...

3

JonWilso t1_jaafrv3 wrote

You're really pushing this race narrative.

It's an easy assumption to make that bikes being used in illegal activities and recklessly driven around the city were illegally obtained and not legally purchased for several thousand dollars at a dealership.

2

MotoSlashSix t1_jaah1v0 wrote

“It’s an easy assumption…”

That’s the point.

0

Douseigh t1_jabysu7 wrote

You’re reaching. Everything needs to be collected and reported in spreadsheets to be true lol

1

Nelson_Gremdella t1_jaacg45 wrote

Race-baiting is so gross

−5

TheCaptainDamnIt t1_jaae4g3 wrote

Yea it is, assuming a bike is stolen because a black kid is riding it is certainly gross.

−4