Advice on neighborhoods to check out ahead of potential move

Submitted by dobbythepup t3_ybtcbg in baltimore

It looks like I am getting a job offer in Baltimore. I currently live in NYC. My husband and I are both civil servants in NYC (brooklyn) and while our current situation is great based on our lives as they are (2 BR affordable apartment, good transport, close to friends, walkable, strong sense of community) we are hoping to have kids soon (we're both in our early-mid 30s) and our prospects for ever purchasing in the city are slim and getting slimmer by the day. And with two of us WFH on and off, it already feels claustrophobic in our place (we also have two big dogs). That aside, this is a huge promotion for me and a great step in my career (a pay and title bump). I am excited but haven't been to Baltimore since I was looking at colleges 15 years ago. We're going down this weekend to check out the city (and meet the folks I would work with) and see where we think we'd like to live. This would be a very fast decision and a tight turn around, so we want to check out the right areas. We love NY, but are both worried about the long term prospects here since our salaries are likely to plateau soon, and the cost of living here sure isn't, which is pushing us towards relocating and taking this opportunity.

Close friends of ours live in Locust Point. Which sounds great, but doesn't really seem like our vibe based on what we've heard and looked at (though we will be staying with our pals there so we can check it out). We love older housing with character, especially townhouses/rowhouses with historical features (my husband says he likes things that look haunted). We really value being in a city, value diversity, walkability. Do not want to live in a flood zone, not really interested in living in a new-construction bro-y area.

We plan to check out Hampden, Federal Hill, Locust Point, Otterbein, and Riverside. Any additional suggestions we should add to the list?

Thanks!

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ClosetHottie t1_itiebbj wrote

Charles Village, Remington, and Mount Vernon will have the walk ability and older, character-filled homes you described. Charles Village has a lot of students though but very artsy homes, Mount Vernon is more couples and professionals, and Remington is a good mix that includes young families but has less cool houses. I recommend checking them out as well!

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Carolecja t1_itiwld3 wrote

If you have time, check out Wyman Park, a smallish. 7 x 3 block neighborhood between Hampden and Roland park. Younger but diverse by age, race and ethnicity. It butts up to Wyman park, a multi acre park that has a huge field where dogs can mostly legally be off leash, 3 miles of walking trails beside a creek, families and singles, a tight community org., UMB and Hopkins U peeps and Hopkins on other side of creek. It is an enclave of genuinely great people who respect, care for and take care of one another. Since it's 90 percent row houses in Baltimore, we're determined to survive and thrive! And yes, I have lived here 25 years.

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PigtownDesign t1_itlgmjc wrote

Not really between Hampden and Roland Park. More like Hampden and Charles Village.

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BMoreOnTheWater t1_itne5yd wrote

This is an excellent list, but if you are looking for row homes, Mount Vernon is mostly apartments and a few very large former mansions, not as many row homes. Wonderful place to live, just wanted to make sure you knew what the general format was.

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jessiewicz t1_itiesyy wrote

You could check out Bolton hill. Possibly more residential than you’re looking for but houses with lots of historic character.

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Elizachase t1_itiwknv wrote

Second this. Very residential but pretty good transit access and the types of houses your husband is interested in.

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needleinacamelseye t1_itigtfx wrote

All of the neighborhoods you've listed there are solid choices for a couple first moving to Baltimore. If you want grander rowhouses with more architectural detail, have a look at greater Charles Village (including Abell and Oakenshawe), Mt Vernon, or Bolton Hill. Those will probably be your best bets for good architecture + walkable + decent transit + diversity. I would also tentatively recommend Union Square - you can get huge Italianate rowhouses for not much money, the community association there is top-notch, and your commute to UMB would be a fifteen-minute walk down Lombard St - but the neighborhoods to the south and west are legitimately rough and I don't know what your tolerance for sketch is.

For what it's worth, I live in Bolton Hill and see a good number of kids of all ages around - from babies to "Congrats, grad!" signs in windows. It's more residential than Mt Vernon and Charles Village while still being within a 15-minute walk of most of Mt Vernon. I love it here and (assuming I can ever afford one of the massive houses) can easily see myself here for a long time.

edit: speling

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Mikel32 t1_itl9ops wrote

Second Union Square. Massive homes that are extremely affordable. The sketchy is mostly due to the drug crime to the south and west. If you’re not a drug dealer, drug user, gang member, you are completely fine.

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ziggy3610 t1_itioz5u wrote

For larger houses with yards, but still walkable and neighborhood-y, chack out Hamilton/Lauraville/Waltherson. Been here eight years now and love it.

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fijimermaidsg t1_itiz94z wrote

There's a couple of houses in Bolton Hill that definitely look haunted - the wisteria-covered one near the park, and the dark gothic townhouses with the spiral staircases...

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dobbythepup OP t1_itj5pjf wrote

I read this to my husband and he goes “YES THAT IS WHAT I WANT”

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fijimermaidsg t1_itj908l wrote

... would be a killer to move stuff up the spiral staircase! I visited a friend who was staying in one of those places and decided it was nice to visit, but not practical... but check out the neighborhood!

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pends t1_itmb27a wrote

Spiral staircases can also be an issue for dogs, especially big ones.

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Popsocks11 t1_itj5e1o wrote

Do you mean the one on Linden & Laurens? Looks very much haunted.

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AffectionatePizza408 t1_itiqlam wrote

Based on how you described yourself, I think you should definitely look further north than the neighborhoods you listed.

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Shiny_Deleter t1_itiwkdo wrote

Yup! OP needs to trash their original list of neighborhoods (except Hampden, though I’m not quick to recommend that one either). Remington, Charles Village, and Bolton Hill are where they should start. Maybe Greenmount West. Personally, I think Mt Vernon has lost its luster and doesn’t seem great for kids. Medfield is in a great public school district, so I’ll throw that into the ring.

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PrimaryInteraction39 t1_itiu2dq wrote

Imo if you are both working from home and have kids you probably want more space than almost row houses offer. If you’re fine with 700k+ houses you should look into keswick and Roland park, which are just north of hampden. Guilford and homeland as a backups.

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Xanny t1_itjqjh3 wrote

In the right areas with the super big townhouses you see a lot of 20' x 80' x 3 story (10' per floor) houses that have theoretical square footage of up to 6k sq ft including the basement. Obviously walls, framing, stairs etc are gonna take a chunk out of that, but these houses were built for intergenerational families 2 centuries ago, and are generally meant to hold up to like 10 people let alone four and two dogs.

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PrimaryInteraction39 t1_itom9tf wrote

Yeah, sure. There just aren’t that many of those available in the neighborhoods op listed and I think the neighborhoods I listed are more desirable to have children in than a Mt Vernon or Bolton Hill

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whatsapotato7 t1_itiykxo wrote

You want to live in Charles Village.

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caro822 t1_itjidin wrote

Nearby Patterson Park or Brewers Hill is nice if you can afford it.

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Unable-Garden-4824 t1_itikmw8 wrote

I love Charles village so so much! My partner and I bought a historical two story co-op here that is absolutely amazing.

I grew up in NYC my whole life - parents still live in their first apartment they bought together back in the 80s (Apt I grew up in and lived in for many years). NYC is not the place it used to be. It’s truly become a playground for capitalistic yuppies to spend their 20s in and then leave as soon as they want to have kids.

Sense of community has far been gone from NYC for awhile / I recommend trying Baltimore out. Been here 3 years and loving it. Plus we were able to purchase a 1200 sq foot two story historical apartment for 135 K

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dobbythepup OP t1_itin7b5 wrote

Could not have said it better myself. Real estate lobby working overtime to remove any remaining sense of community here.

I am excited but also sad to leave NYC - we'd planned/hoped to raise our kids here and be little old people sitting on the subway and walking together in the park. We will definitely check out Charles Village! (especially hearing you're from the city!). My jaw dropped at 135k

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JBG1973 t1_itixn5c wrote

My husband grew up in Canarsie, and we have lived in Baltimore for nearly 20 years (and raised a child here) so he is not up to date on the current vibe in Flatbush, but for similar housing stock and a Jewish turned black now become more mixed neighborhood with architecturally appealing brownstones I would add reservoir hill to your list. Druid hill park is a great asset, but the neighborhood is lacking in "walk to amenities (coffee shops, restaurants, grocery, etc).

For example this one: https://www.redfin.com/MD/Baltimore/2430-Eutaw-Pl-21217/home/10866259

On a two (even public interest) lawyer salary I would also consider Roland Park, Guilford and Tuscany Canterburry. Tuscany Canterberry is all row homes, Roland Park and Guilford have large row homes at the edges (they were built to keep the riff raff out).

I find that those that choose to live in the city are pretty committed to the city and making it better and therefore very neighborly. I know that our block really looks out for each other and my impression is that is true in many parts of the city.

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dobbythepup OP t1_itj3o51 wrote

Omg amazing haunted house find! Thank you for your suggestions - this is so helpful!

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dopkick t1_itmv2v4 wrote

That property is also going to need a solid $100K in renovations I bet. If not more.

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wbruce098 t1_itj33i2 wrote

There’s a lot of good, 1500sq’+ homes to be had in safe Baltimore neighborhoods for under $400k. Honestly, many well under 350; mine is 1700sq’, 3br/2ba and I got it for under 300 last year, Highlandtown. It’s a great, walkable, family friendly neighborhood on the east side but no rail anywhere near it. The biggest issue is gonna be schools. I can’t speak for elementaries; I’ve heard some are good; the one near me seems fine. But the high schools are 🤷🏻‍♂️ unless the kids can score high enough to go to one of the city’s top schools or you can afford private school. Which, if you can afford living in NYC and are getting a better paying job here, maybe you can with lower cost of living here?

Bmore has fairly limited rail, mostly in the center of the city, though it has a good bus system — just not near enough drivers so buses are often late.

Wherever you choose, Baltimore has a lot of amazing neighborhoods with great vibe and friendly neighbors. I’ve been here 2 years now and couldn’t love it more!

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JBG1973 t1_itjgk4w wrote

Just a FYI on the high schools...

When people here magnet schools by admissions, they tend to think of hyper competitive magnet schools like Thomas Jefferson in Fairfax County or Hunter or Stuyvesant in NYC. The formal cutoff for City is 65th percentile on nationally normed standardized tests and successful grades in middle school. Students of educated parents who are spending time researching schools will most often have test scores in the 65th percentile. At a school like Stuyvesant you are looking at 95th+ percentile of those who take the test for magnet schools.

Baltimore School for the Arts is by artistic potential.

But for the most part if you are in a good elementary/middle district your student will be able to go to one of the good public high schools

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Xanny t1_itjqxft wrote

Fair warning, if you see a house thats too good to be true, it probably is. The stuff under 200k is usually structurally unsound or has something really wrong with it. You can get a lucky break, but tread lightly, especially in the bougie neighborhoods.

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dopkick t1_itmvkga wrote

> My jaw dropped at 135k

Your jaw would really drop if you moved into a $135K home in a good neighborhood. Especially when you found out it was going to be another $135K to make it habitable.

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WildfellHallX t1_itjj1c0 wrote

Plus we were able to purchase a 1200 sq foot two story historical apartment for 135 K...really??

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BrunettexAmbition t1_itjaw6u wrote

I’m originally from NY and spent a lot of time in all the boroughs. I just bought my first home and it was important to me to have a brick rowhouse with those architectural details you find in older homes. Something with a history and that quality craftsmanship you just don’t kind in new builds. I ended up in Federal Hill. Walkability was also super important and I have 2 bars and a sushi place within a block so mission accomplished. There’s also Light Street and Charles St which, has tons of restaurants, bars, an arcade, the Cross Street market, and lots of ice cream/ desert places. Aside from all of that it’s only a mile long walk into the inner harbor. I really love it here and it sounds like your wish list has a lot of the stuff mine did, hope this helps.

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dobbythepup OP t1_itltqx3 wrote

Yeah we thought Federal Hill might be a good option for the reasons you mentioned (also being on a higher elevation was a bonus for me after looking at topographical maps). I was concerned after hearing from a few people that it has a bro-y vibe like Murray Hill/Hoboken. Is that your experience?

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XanderCruse t1_itmrn9d wrote

I think it can be bro-y at times. I feel like most of it only really shows up on weekend nights for the bars. My street is mostly young professionals and young families (30s), though it's closer to Fort Ave than to Cross St.

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BrunettexAmbition t1_itma65s wrote

I don’t find it to be remotely similar to Hoboken. I’ve only been here a month and from my encounters it’s lots of young couples, families, and some older people who’ve been here since they raised their children. Aside from game days it’s relatively quiet but that’s the entire city and part of the fun. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Philadelphia at all but if you are I’d say this area reminds me of Old City and Queen’s Village.

In terms of flooding that’s another thing that drew me here after checking the flood maps this area is as safe as I’m going to get while still living by the water. Most of this area isn’t a federal flood zone. During the hurricane remnants last month most of the concerned posts we’re in the Locust Point and Fells Point area so I think they have some issues. I do get water in my basement but it’s ground water and very minimal. I’ve also heard horror stories in certain neighborhood about sewage backup and I think that also tends to be in that general area but I’m not entirely sure. Definitely watch out if that though, it’s so bad the city has programs for those effected.

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dobbythepup OP t1_itmas91 wrote

Thank you so much - those are very helpful points of reference. Yeah after the remnants of Hurricane Ida last year here in NYC, flooding got so bad in some areas that people drowned in their basement apartments, and lots of garden apartments flooded. Tons of sewage back flow issues, etc, so we're definitely mindful of that.

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TheBananaStan t1_itjefwl wrote

Hampden/Charles village/ Remington!

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maidrey t1_itjlro4 wrote

You’ve received a bunch of really great advice. I’d also check out some stuff near Mayfair / near Clifton golf course. There’s some really incredible houses with character facing the golf course in that area that depending on if you’re buying immediately may really fit what you want, and with the parks around there, there are places where you can definitely walk your dogs.

ETA: Whenever you’re getting into town it may be worth checking out the trolley tour run by Live Baltimore as the tour can be really helpful in discovering some smaller neighborhoods you may not otherwise think of!

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HighlightInternal633 t1_itjo65a wrote

My husband and I are on the same boat but we don't plan on having kids and we have a lower budget, around $200k. There's a lot of newly renovated rowhomes under 200k but in none of the neighborhoods people recommend. It's so hard to figure out which areas are actually unsafe vs which are "not gentrified enough" for people. We want something that isn't fratty, that's diverse but also where I'll be safe walking by myself, and where houses are under $200k. Don't need to live near a bunch of bars, residential is fine, just within the city. Open to all suggestions ✨

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Xanny t1_itjr3hc wrote

My spouse and I bought on the border of Union Square in Mount Clare this summer for 185k for a 4 bedroom 3 bath 2013 rehab. I left my passenger door unlocked overnight and my car was still there this morning, so its probably not as bad as people think, and some neighbors had a block party in the lot across the street last night.

From what I've seen I think Pigtown is overhyped but Hollins Market and Union Square are legit hidden gems, at least along Lombard and Hollins. Things get worse on Baltimore and Pratt.

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dopkick t1_itjob62 wrote

If kids are a big consideration of yours, which I assume they are given you mentioned it, Locust Point is definitely the vibe you're looking for. There are a ton of young families there. There are always people out walking and the water taxi is conveniently located.

Also, a warning about "character" on the interior. It's usually a term that describes some impractical, quirky feature that will negatively impact your usage of the space. When I was looking to buy my current I saw plenty of houses with "character" and it was usually crap like some old stove in the middle of the living room rendering the room useless without removal -and/or- some stairs that are impossible to get any furniture larger than a nightstand up. In townhomes you really, really don't want to sacrifice usable space to character as it will quickly turn into annoyance or outright hatred.

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dobbythepup OP t1_itlt46a wrote

Yeah, this is what our friends say, too re the kid friendly vibe there - we've been roped into Halloween celebrations during our visit so I'm sure we'll get a really good sense of the vibe. We're definitely open to it - but the Under Armor campus nearby makes me think it might be a tech-like corporate bubble (and the houses I've seen are more expensive and look a bit more like generic flips or newer builds).

To add more context to what we're looking for, if we had millions and could comfortably stay in Brooklyn forever, our dream would be to buy a brownstone or limestone in Prospect Heights or Prospect Lefferts Gardens (if you have familiarity with NYC)-- ideally one with original wood details, built in mirrors, original tiling or stained glass etc. Bonus points if a little old lady lived there for 50 years. We want to get in before the flippers convert everything into monotone gray. Space is obviously a premium (something we will appreciate even more once we have kids) but after years and years in a 1.5 bedroom rent stabilized apartment in a 90 unit building, we are likely to feel spoiled quite easily. One thing I do like about Locust Point is it sounds like a ton of walking, and I love that the houses are close together (alleys kind of creep me out).

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needleinacamelseye t1_itlzwr1 wrote

The thing about the neighborhoods on the South Baltimore peninsula (Federal Hill, Riverside, Locust Point) is that, with the exception of a handful of blocks, they were built as housing for the working class. In the days before everybody owned a car, employees of the waterfront docks/factories/warehouses needed to live near where they worked. Their houses were not grand and never had much in the way of architectural details - they were two stories, six rooms, plain façade, stamped steel cornice, maybe 1400 sq. ft. if you're lucky. When the upper-middle classes discovered that living near the water was actually quite pleasant once all the industry moved away, they bought old working class houses, gutted them, and redid the interiors to match modern tastes. There are almost no houses similar to the ones in Park Slope or Prospect Heights on the South Baltimore peninsula, and those that do exist are highly unlikely to still have their original interiors.

If you want Park Slope or Prospect Heights in Baltimore, you need to look at the Charles St corridor heading north out of downtown - this has always been where the city's money lived. This is where you find the 5-6000 sq. ft. mansions for the city's elite, along with alley housing for their servants. Once you get far enough north, the rowhouses give way to single-family mansions that I would argue compare favorably to the housing stock in any East Coast city.

Just know that there are tradeoffs - for instance, the tony northern neighborhoods generally do not have great public elementary schools (with the notable exception of Roland Park EMS), as most of the residents have the funds to send their kids to private school. Canton, Federal Hill, and Locust Point have good public elementary schools - but you're not going to get the architecture you want. And this isn't even taking into account commuting, walkability, shopping, cultural amenities, etc. I'm sure you'll find something that you'll be happy with, but there will be tradeoffs - unfortunately that's how Baltimore is.

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dobbythepup OP t1_itm1itn wrote

This is extremely helpful context and makes a ton of sense based on what we’ve seen. Thank you for giving me that history. I think as much as it’s nice to fantasize about having pretty tile and ornate wood carved interiors, our values are much more aligned with public education and living in an urban environment than a cute spooky house.

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blsavarese t1_itwleoh wrote

Just moved to Reservoir Hill and I think it might have the vibe you're after. The rowhouses are larger than those in South Balto and have more of the NY/Brooklyn brownstone feel. I've spent a lot of time in Brooklyn and this 'hood feels like Brooklyn to me. In fact, an incredible place that just came on the market on the Mt Royal Crescent, which is near me (more Balto style rowhouse than brownstone style, but still incredible). I have felt so welcomed by my very diverse neighbors and can honestly say that I love my neighborhood. I think Reservoir Hill gets a bit of bad rep, but I'm not sure it's warranted.

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blsavarese t1_itwljn3 wrote

oh, and my hubs doesn't drive--only uses transit. transit here is not great, but RH is basically located at the N/S and E/W transit hub.

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needleinacamelseye t1_itxs1av wrote

For what it's worth, OP specifically said that she was looking for walkability in her post. While the houses in Res Hill are very nice, and I agree it gets a worse reputation than it deserves, I wouldn't exactly call it walkable. There are no businesses in the neighborhood save for Dovecote Cafe, and it's surrounded by parks, a busy freeway, and other staunchly residential neighborhoods. Most everything you might want to do or buy is going to be in Hampden or CV or Station North or Mt Vernon, so if you're looking for walkability, why not live in one of those neighborhoods and save yourself having to drive everywhere?

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blsavarese t1_itxuyi9 wrote

Have to respectfully disagree. We love Cookhouse, On the Hill, and Tilted Row just to name a few restaurants. Can easily walk to the PO and the elementary school one block away. Oh yeah, also close to the zoo and walking distance the symphony. Also, we can walk only minutes to major transit hubs to get wherever transit takes you. pretty comparable experience to many ‘hoods in Brooklyn. So yeah, no Starbucks and no walkable grocery, but maybe you’ll even find that with the development of Madison Park North. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Strong recommendation for RH.

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dopkick t1_itluyf5 wrote

> We're definitely open to it - but the Under Armor campus nearby makes me think it might be a tech-like corporate bubble (and the houses I've seen are more expensive and look a bit more like generic flips or newer builds).

This is extremely, extremely far off. There is no tech-bro corporate bubble anywhere in Baltimore. The UA campus there is also on the way out.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you need to reconcile the HGTV stuff with reality. Especially if you're looking to have kids. Depending on what kind of lifestyle you're after (accessibility to other families, schools, need for a car, etc.) there are some neighborhoods that might be much better suited to you. I would put architecture as a very low priority, personally.

Alleys are extremely common in Baltimore, BTW. They're everywhere and range from clean pseudo roads wide enough for two cars to narrow, dark passages out of a murder mystery.

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coreylk82 t1_itldhjz wrote

We’re in Bolton Hill. We love it because it has cool old houses, our son can walk to school, and we’re also able to walk to a lot of fun stuff. We can also walk to the light rail and take it downtown for O’s games or to go to the aquarium. It’s a great neighborhood.

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dobbythepup OP t1_itlu2uy wrote

Bolton Hill is looking really great! How residential is it? Ideally we'd love to be a mixed residential and commercial area where we can walk to most things we need.

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coreylk82 t1_itz1if6 wrote

Bolton Hill is mostly residential, but you can pretty easily walk to commercial. We can walk to a lot of what we want to do, but not necessarily what we need. There isn’t a big grocery store within walking distance for example, but there is at least one decent market, and another one for emergencies. My husband does the grocery shopping and he prefers to drive to Wegman’s. Our doctors aren’t walkable, but if you wanted to choose doctors that are and you don’t mind a longish walk, you could.

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sxswnxnw t1_itj8fye wrote

Mount Vernon and Bolton Hill and probably Midtown Belvedere will give you the best city experiences because they are so central.

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girlboyfriend t1_itjcnhy wrote

Come to Remington. I just moved here a few months ago and love it. It has a lot of what you’re talking about.

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jupitaur9 t1_itkohud wrote

There are some houses in Roland Park that could feel haunted. What’s your budget?

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B-More_Orange t1_itlypao wrote

If you're planning on having kids soon, I'd add Canton to the list. Hampstead Hill is a GREAT elementary school and not even just by Baltimore City public school standards. There are some bars and areas that are more "bro-y" but there are lots of original homes and tons of young parents in the neighborhood. Personally, I love being sandwiched between Patterson Park and also the waterfront to take advantage of both.

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