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Jaedos t1_itku0fo wrote

Dante really ends up his own villain at the end. He ruined Mercedes out of narcissistic jealousy because for all intends and purposes, her and Fernand had a happy marriage. Fernand was absolutely deserving of his undoing; but Dantes could have spared Mercedes if he really loved her. She thought he was long dead for f*'s sake.

Danglers gets off fairly easy, but Mercedes cloisters. Then again, I guess I can't blame her much considering her life has been nothing but having the men she's loved lie and die.

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ComicsNBigBooks OP t1_itl2m1o wrote

You're right, that's a part of the tragedy of the story, and Edmond doesn't realize it until it's too late. Only thing I disagree on is that Fernand and Mercedes had a happy marriage; I definitely don't believe she was happy, other than having Albert. But I get what you mean, it was more or less functioning.

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Jaedos t1_itl4yay wrote

"Happy" might be stretching it, ... ... "comfortable" might be more accurate, or maybe "secure". I went and looked up Fernand to see if he was worthy of forgiveness since it's been a while since I read the book.

Nope, pretty much just a solid bastard. Did he assassinate Haydee's father as well?

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devilishycleverchap t1_itl7zdk wrote

I'm not sure he pulled the trigger or the guards away. Either way he was responsible

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for_dishonor t1_itlkt1k wrote

Mercedes chose her fate. She and Albert chose to abandon Fernand rather than live a life earned through dishonorable action. Dantes didn't force that he just exposed the dishonor. Hell, he was ready to suicide so Albert could keep his honor.

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SleptLikeANaturalLog t1_itlsmq1 wrote

I agree that it broke my heart how Mercedes’ life fell apart far worse than she deserved. While she herself felt guilt for abandoning Dantes, I think the main betrayal Dantes felt by Mercedes was how she allowed his father to continue living in squalor and depression only to die pathetically and alone.

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Jaedos t1_itotdl3 wrote

I forgot about that part. Didn't Fernand have a hand in ensuring that though and probably actively prevented Mercedes from helping the father?

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ZeMastor t1_itp1i7y wrote

No. That wasn't Fernand's fault at all. Old Dantes was a proud man, and didn't want to accept help from anyone. Mercedes even wanted him to live with her so she could take care of him, but the old man refused. He became a hermit and stopped eating. Mercedes recruited the senior Morrel to help, but old Dantes insisted on isolating himself until he died of starvation.

Old Dantes had an inkling that he'd never see Edmond again, and willed himself to death.

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ChaosAE t1_itllthh wrote

It is really the children that make him the villain and is why he is written so well. Seeing it all we can understand his actions but he consciously destroys the lives of many innocent people just for his revenge.

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ZeMastor t1_itp5xrg wrote

"Many" = 2.

Johannes the jeweler and little Edouard de Villefort.

Albert and Mercedes don't really count, because the destruction of their lives was self-inflicted. Nobody forced them out of their home or reduced them to desperate poverty. If they wanted to, they could sell the house, take the money and move somewhere else.

OTOH, look at the lives he had saved/helped as the Count:

  1. Morrel Sr.- saved from suicide, and gifted a new ship to regain his rep and prosperity.
  2. Noirtier- Currently safe at Leghorn, happily awaiting Val and Max so he can bless their marriage. Without the Count, Madame Villefort would have eventually found a way to kill him.
  3. Julie Morrel Herbault- due to the Dantes' doing, she could marry Emmanuel and not live in poverty when her father was financially ruined.
  4. Emmanuel Herbault- Able to marry Julie Morrel because she's got a dowry (courtesy of Dantes). Otherwise, his family would not have approved the marriage to Valentine.
  5. Maximilian Morrel- Would have committed suicide with his father, but Dantes saved the father, and also the son. Received a HUGE wedding gift in wealth from the Count.
  6. Ali- saved from execution by the Sultan. Seems to be content serving the Count.
  7. Haydee- sailing off with the man she loves. If it weren't for the Count, she would still be a slave and a concubine in a Sultan's harem.
  8. Peppino- would have been executed, but the Count bought his freedom.
  9. Valentine de Villefort- she would have been murdered by poison by Madame Villefort, but the Count saved her (for Max's sake) and gifted her a huge wedding present in $$$.
  10. Eugenie Danglars- Would have been married (reluctantly) to Albert. Instead, the Count provided her with a forged passport, enabling her to run away to Italy with her girlfriend. (she's LGBT).
  11. Louise D'Armilly- Thanks to the Count, she ran away with the person she loves (she's LGBT).

Not that he's perfect. but overall, he did more good than harm. More innocents saved, and the guilty punished.

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TywinShitsGold t1_itpk9t4 wrote

In all fairness to Eddie - he was actually guilty of the offense. He did stop off Elba during the exile. He did meet with the emperor and took secure communications on board.

That’s treason, and he’s lucky he didn’t get an appointment with a guillotine.

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ZeMastor t1_itqdcu0 wrote

True, but one of the key points in the book was that Dantes did not even get a trial. Villefort just had him quietly hustled away to D'if.

Could possibly mean that the bar for an execution was pretty high, and would have required a trial and a certain bunch of signatures. V. wanted to keep the entire affair on the down-low (protecting Noirtier), and an actual trial would have mean that Noirtier's name would have gone out. And Dantes' likeability and naivety might have won over the other judge.

It could also mean that V. is a better human being than he seemed to be initially. Like, only wanting to shuffle Dantes away until it was convenient to release him (after Napoleon's death). But eventually he forgot about that and Dantes was left to rot.

This is not the only example of "French traitor protagonist in a classic novel slipping between the cracks and not being executed." Victor Hugo allowed Marius to live, and even get married, and live aboveground after Marius' involvement in the Revolt. Marius was at the barricades, shot at soldiers, and threatened to blow everybody up, ffs. But Hugo waved it away by saying that Marius' months-long convalescence saved him, the hubbub died down, and nobody bothered to look for him because so much time had passed.

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TywinShitsGold t1_itqgvm4 wrote

It might have been a little shady and corrupt, but it was basically a plea deal. He had letters showing the emperors intended return and revolution - which is treason. Notier wasn’t some underworld/unknown figure, he was a well known Parisian Bonapartist. And the Morrells were already under suspicion.

Danglars was an opportunist looking to make a political play, Ferdinand was a jealous asshole, but the worst thing Villefort can be accused of is being a politician. He distanced himself from his dad, he married into the bourbons. He didn’t exactly get along with the old man, but Nortier protected him during Bonaparte’s short restoration.

Young Eddie was a fool 10 different ways - Notier/Villefort notwithstanding. Napoleon had just been deposed and exiled. Marseilles was heavily royalist and anti-Bonaparte. Yet he thought nothing of just stopping by at Elba. And he wasnt naive and indifferent - he knew who he was talking to and he was proud to do it - though he kept the secret according to his captains wishes. He was first mate on a “smuggling” boat. How could he not know, hell the accountant (Danglars) knew. One look at the chart and it would be obvious they’re stopping by Elba to pass messages. He might have spent a couple years on boats, but daddy Dantes lived in town, Morrell lived in town. He had to know about the unrest - especially since boats carried word abroad to trading partners.

I don’t think Villefort had any intent of releasing Eddie at any point. Regardless of Bonaparte retaking the throne. A) he was a royalist, B) he knew it wasn’t going to last. Letting Eddie out after 3 months would out him as a Bonapartist like his father and kill his future in France. He’d be sidelined once Napoleon fell apart again. But he didn’t go so far as cutting Eddie’s head off without a trial.

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ZeMastor t1_itrre0s wrote

Can't be a plea deal when the accused didn't even place a plea or try to make a deal. V. was truly ready to release Dantes, and Dantes was ready to head out the door. Until V. found out the letter was addressed to Noirtier. Up until that point, V. wasn't ready to prosecute Dantes (and he wanted to impress Renee with his mercy). V. had seen real foaming-at-the-mouth Bonapartists and wouldn't hesitate to condemn them but that boy wasn't one of them. He saw a dumbass who was in way over his head in something that he didn't truly understand.

V. didn't hang out with the old man because of political ambitions. But we have seen that V. was willing to warn Noirtier that the police were looking for Gen. Quesnel's assassin, and the description of the perp looked just like ol' Dad. And V. just stood by as Noirtier shaved and changed his clothing, and even took parts of V's own wardrobe. So they had differing politics, but V. wasn't hostile or willing to let his father get arrested.

Yeah, Dantes was a naive fool, but I'd write it off as "typical 19 year old". Dantes might have heard a few things here and there, but blew it off as, "Meh, doesn't concern me. No politics for me. All I care about is my job, my Dad and marrying Mercedes. Oh, the captain's last wish was to deliver this letter... ummm, OK."

And that's exactly what he told V. and V. saw his sincerity and believed him.

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Jaedos t1_itotrvs wrote

That seems to be the moral here.

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Saneless t1_itlep34 wrote

The only thing I liked about it was just that it really sets the fact that pure revenge has no room for compassion, even towards yourself and those you actually love. It sucks but that's how badly he wanted it.

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ZeMastor t1_itlnkkt wrote

But HOW did he ruin Mercedes? He already told her (in "bread and salt") that he's forgiven her for marrying another.

Fernand had plenty of blood on his hands... betraying Ali Pasha, a ruler that he served, resulted in the deaths of tons of Janina defenders. He took bribe money from the Turks and helped himself to "slaves" (like Haydee and her mother) and sold them to line his own pockets. That, plus ruining young Edmond's life with 14 years at Chateau D'if in order to get Mercedes for himself. Of course he deserved his fate.

Dantes (as the Count) wanted to help Mercedes. He offered plenty of financial assistance, but she refused it, only accepting the 3000 franc dowry and a roof (old Dantes' place). As the widow of Fernand, she voluntarily donated the Morcerf property and money to the poor and walked away from it all. Her own decision and choice. Not the Count's doing. If she wanted to, she could still be living in that nice house in Paris and not embarking on that pitiful journey to get to Marseilles to start over (from the bottom).

As we had left her, she would only accept the Count's help "if Albert approved it". So she was an indirect victim of the Count's revenge, but she had plenty of escape hatches and resources that she refused to take. Like the saying goes, "can't help those who won't help themselves."

IRL, people deal with this all the time. Family members die. Tragedies happen that might make you temporarily homeless (fire, flood, earthquake, disaster). You can deal with it, and tap every resource available (friends, relatives, existing bank accounts, insurance payout) and rebuild your life, or you can sink into a deep, dark depression and will yourself into an early grave. I am sad to say that for Mercedes, the latter is quite probable.

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Jaedos t1_itotp2e wrote

I need to check the version I've read because either it's been so long since I've read it that I'm forgetting this all went on, or it wasnt in the version I read.

I have such a massive back log of books to read, I shouldn't be putting this back into it again. I've already read it like four times in the past 15 years. :)

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ZeMastor t1_itp31hy wrote

Fair enough.

In particular, look at:

Chapter 91: Albert and Mercedes leave Fernand's house, with no money, no job and no real plan until the Count's letter gifts them 3000 francs and a roof (old Dantes' house) in Marseilles.

104: Confirmation that Mercedes and Albert willed all their money and property to the poor.

106: Ultra-pitiful chapter of Albert and Mercedes sleeping in shabby, cheapo rooms, struggling to scrape up enough money to get transportation to Marseilles. <self-inflicted and a direct result of no planning.

112: The Count's last meeting with Mercedes. A depress-fest that confirms how much he wanted to help her, but she refused.

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SydneyCartonLived t1_itlygwk wrote

That's one reason why I prefer the "alternate" ending where Dantes ends a broken man, where he is consumed with self-doubt about whether his actions were justified or not.

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Jaedos t1_itot48a wrote

I haven't heard of that. The more I refresh myself on Fernand, the more that guy got everything that was coming to him, but ya, Count Dantes could have made a lot better choices.

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ZeMastor t1_itp1uzi wrote

Tell me where this alternate ending is? Is it a book? A movie? A stageplay?

I'm always interested in reading about, or watching variations of the story.

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