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BudgetMattDamon t1_j2a2ehh wrote

Reply to comment by shebeogden in Does Don Winslow introduce endless female characters just to write explicitly about their bodies and sex lives? by hammnbubbly

Butcher is a notable example of a writer who's actually tried to evolve past that. It's also difficult to say how much of it is Butcher and not just his depiction of Harry Dresden.

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Mad_Aeric t1_j2a7w3h wrote

Given that his other works are much better about that issue, I think it's mainly just Harry. Though what he's done with Butters definitely invokes an exasperated sigh from me.

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BudgetMattDamon t1_j2a8nrs wrote

You're right - I was actually thinking of Michael of an example of a completely different and non-sexist character written by Butcher. I liked Butters a lot but he got Flanderized hard.

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ArchmageXin t1_j2amizp wrote

> got Flanderized hard.

Is that where he got the Holy-Light-Saber, or the part banging an literal werewolf girl?

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AmnesiaCane t1_j2ansfz wrote

The in universe short stories from the perspective of other characters don't do that, even from what I recall Thomas's short story lacks any descriptions of anyone's nipples. I agree Butcher is probably inserting a degree of personal fantasy into Dresden's descriptions, but I think he's aware of it and limits it to just Dresden. And even in the main books, Dresden gets called out for that sort of behavior repeatedly, usually by female characters.

I mean, on the one hand, sexuality is literally a weapon being used by half of the things he encounters (fey, whamps, etc.), so it's no surprise Harry notices them. On the other hand, Butcher is the one who put them there, and Butcher sure likes to use sexy feminine monsters a hell of a lot more than he uses bigfoot.

If someone doesn't like sexuality in their books, Dresden Files are probably not for them, and that's ok. But that doesn't make it problematic or even just bad writing on the part of Butcher.

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Anathos117 t1_j2aqppi wrote

> On the other hand, Butcher is the one who put them there, and Butcher sure likes to use sexy feminine monsters a hell of a lot more than he uses bigfoot.

We can't really be sure he actually likes it. That's the whole problem with people extrapolating content to author character: there's no actual certainty of connection between the two. Maybe he does it because he thinks it makes the books sell better. Maybe he does it to maintain a consistent theme. Maybe he does it to upset people. There's no way to know, short of Butcher literally telling us his reasons.

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AmnesiaCane t1_j2capub wrote

Right, Butcher notoriously plays his cards to his chest and clearly doesn't enjoy giving away details about himself, his world, or his writing process to his fans at the drop of a hat. He's so inscrutable!

I'm sorry for being sarcastic, I do appreciate your point and the conversation, but come on. If you know anything at all about him, you know he definitely likes it.

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ArchmageXin t1_j2ans5t wrote

The question is, for being a Magic + Noir detective character, his sex life is actually pretty stale compared to a lot of books I read about.

It is not like the dude is running an Isekai harem or something. In 15 books he had maybe 1 relationship that last more than a few months.

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BudgetMattDamon t1_j2atm9h wrote

That's actually a point I hadn't considered, but it makes sense.

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ArchmageXin t1_j2avkpa wrote

Plus, a lot of time he mention "boob and tits" is from a noir Chicago detective point of view, which give him the old, politically incorrect type of character. (As opposed to say, Michael Carpenter or Butters).

So what if he notice the Queen of Air and Darkness have a nice ass? You can sue him :P

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lunatics_and_poets t1_j2bcmum wrote

He created Harry Dresden though? These character do not simply emerge from the mind fully formed. At every stage, the author makes choices on what kind of character they want to create and the tone they want to set for their series. Everything is a choice for AND against something.

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Anathos117 t1_j2bepns wrote

Sure, but authors can and generally do depict characters with different values and personalities than their own. Authors also create the villains in their stories; do you assume that they are indicative of the authors' character?

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Electronic_Basis7726 t1_j2cn2ft wrote

Is depiction always endorsment for you?

And just to set the stage, I think Dresden books go overboard with the description of women.

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NeedsMaintenance_ t1_j2beun5 wrote

I agree with you, and I've definitely had moments where I've questioned the necessity of something Butcher has thrown into Harry's narrative to us.

That said, it has gotten better and so I think since such a big part of your point is that authors make their choices for and against things, it's only fair to point out that Butcher has made the choice to do better, and not sexualize characters as much.

The other thing is that Harry has a darker half, an alter-ego that we don't know tons about yet and apparenty will in Mirror, Mirror, but it's there; of impulse and drives and darkness. I suspect that Harry's rage and his lust problems are going to bite him in the ass soon, which is probably building towards a narrative of "these flaws of Harry's hurt him and those around him", just like they do to a person in real life. I think we're building towards realistic consequences for Harry's toxic traits.

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