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Patapotat t1_iv09txk wrote

If prices keep increasing the next couple cycles like they did the last 3 or so we'll be looking at 3000 - 4000 EUR for a flagship card within the decade. That is compared to the 500 they were a decade prior to now.

Pretty crazy.

125

MorgrainX OP t1_iv0a1d5 wrote

PC gaming will slowly become an absolute niche, most gamers will flock to smartphone or consoles (SONY and Microsoft will continue to keep the hardware prices low in order to get market shares).

That's a sad truth, and I don't see AMD or NVIDIA do a thing to stop that from happening. Both have massively increased prices (Ryzen is no longer a good budget price/performance ratio product, instead it's an ultra-expensive luxury brand).

When they increased the prices massively from Ryzen 1000 to 5000, it became quite clear how the future would look like. There are no more cheap new 150-200 buck CPUs.

You don't have to play underdog anymore, when you have sizeable market shares.

At the end of day, AMD, NVIDIA and Intel will demand whatever prices they can get away with.

17

Dull_Half_6107 t1_iv0bjd8 wrote

If PC gaming becomes a niche for customers, it will become a niche for publishers too.

Why would a publisher spend time and money on a PC version/port if barely anyone is going to buy it vs console?

The PC gaming industry needs affordable cards to survive.

Seems like the crypto requirement for massive GPU power is becoming less and less popular (especially with insane energy prices), so at some point Nvidia will need to adjust their prices so enough people can actually afford them.

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GermanRedditorAmA t1_iv0jaah wrote

I mean current cards are miles ahead of current gen consoles. I recently upgraded, but my last 1070 rig from 6 years ago was still running almost everything perfectly fine, except those "graphic card sellers" type of products. If you consider that most games worth playing are indie titles that could run on decade old hardware anyway, I don't see a big problem. I also think that necessity to upgrade will decrease even further in the future.

It's a trend, PC gaming will become more niche, but at least for the generation that grew up with them, I think it'll be there forever.

3

mandelmanden t1_iv0vnma wrote

Even so, the "AAA" titles will run absolutely fine on a far more budget system. There's a reason why GPU reviews hardly include 1080p results - it's not very relevant seeing 400-600 FPS in a graph.Most people have a 1080p or at most a 1440p panel, those will be driven just fine at 60+ FPS on 2-300$ cards at medium-high settings and will continue to do so for years to come.

As for most games I have on my "want to play" list, they're something that hardly make my 5700 XT break a sweat. One of those games I've been playing is literally built on the Quake engine, yes not even the Q3 engine, the first one.

8

jl_theprofessor t1_iv0vxl8 wrote

Yeah just did a quick look. My 3090TI is way more powerful than the PS5 and looks like it's going to be sufficient for a long time to come.

6

Catch_022 t1_iv1k8dt wrote

IIRC the PS5 is something like a 2070 super in terms of performance so yeah

1

User9705 t1_iv344zt wrote

And keep the power company happy.🤣

1

Auirom t1_iv0k8ms wrote

Bought a 970 and used it for 8 years. No issues with any game I played cause the majority of them were as you said, indie games. Crosscode, Hero Siege, Neon Chrome, and Moon Hunters to name a few. Big company games are fun but they lack the replayability and challenge I enjoy from the indie games

3

blahbleh112233 t1_iv0oygf wrote

Agree. Doesn't help too that almost all games are cross platform and the ones that aren't seem to be more CPU heavy anyways. Anything cross platform will be playable by decades old cards.

2

leoboro t1_iv0djkh wrote

Laptops are an alternative

−14

BusinessBear53 t1_iv0f02x wrote

Their GPUs are several generations behind despite their naming.

7

secretcaboolturelab t1_iv0bjg2 wrote

A decade is about what I need to get through my Steam backlog.

Then I've got the GOG backlog to look forward to!

13

w0mbatina t1_iv0bks3 wrote

I dont think thats quite true. Back in the day the top tier hardware was cheaper, but it also became obsolete much faster. 2-3 years and you were barely trudging along. Nowdays you can have a 10 year old pc that can still run pretty much anything with decent fps if you dont max all the settings out.

12

mixedd t1_iv0ihtx wrote

>Nowdays you can have a 10 year old pc that can still run pretty much anything with decent fps if you dont max all the settings out.

Say that to my gtx 1070 from build i did in 2017, while technically it can run anything by reaching 60fps, theres no joy doing that on low settings

3

PM_ME_GERMAN_SHEPARD t1_iv0un1s wrote

What games do you play? I have a 980 and I can play pretty much every game I have in 1080p 100+ fps.

4

mixedd t1_iv0vfjb wrote

I'm on a 1440p screen, mostly either open worlds like RDR2, or simulators like MSFS, Elite, Star Citizen

1080p on 1070 is perfect still, it just looks like shit on 1440p screen

1

mandelmanden t1_iv0wbr5 wrote

I'm pretty sure you don't need to run much on low settings with that card. Unless you want to play at 4k or something.

1

mixedd t1_iv0wxfh wrote

1440p is kind off heavy on it in example of RDR2, on custom settings that replicate setting of xbox/playstation for that game its reaching only 50-55fps, while playable and it's fine, that graphical fidelity once put on higher setting adds to immersion.

MSFS and Star Citizen is way different story tough.

But in general yes, card holds pretty well for its age

1

mandelmanden t1_iv11ybn wrote

Taking the most notoriously difficult to run titles as a benchmark is also pretty unflattering :p

1

mixedd t1_iv12auj wrote

Well, but those are titles I'm playing, so that's why I'm saying that 1070 isn't suited for me personally anymore.

For someone who plays esports all the time on 1080p it would be perfect budget card.

1

mandelmanden t1_iv0w7z4 wrote

Top tier hardware was always quite expensive, not quite as expensive as the last 3 generations, but quite expensive - the late 90s to mid 2010s was actually a bit of an outlier in that regard.

And as you say, the modern hardware lasts for years and years. Back in the day your system was outdated in 6-12 months and 2-3 years down the line you would be lucky if you could even launch a new game.

3

carbine23 t1_iv0eaf4 wrote

That’s not true lmfao, there are older parts available to game on 1080p/1440p, the new cards are tailored for 4K gaming which is the niche market, you can build a pc for less than $800 and have 1080p gaming

10

asyrin25 t1_iv0pox2 wrote

Flagship PC gaming IS a niche.

It should be a niche. "The very best graphics card money can buy" is never going to be mainstream and it never was.

Look at the steam hardware survey. Mainstream cards are xx60 and xx50.

These are enthusiast cards for people will8ng to pay out the nose to experience tech earlier.

10

Jopojussi t1_iv1149p wrote

You know flagship gpu used to be like 400-500, just because it was and is niche its perfectly fine to charge 3x and keep going harder?

5

asyrin25 t1_iv14jnc wrote

The last flagship card that was $500 was the GTX 480 in 2010. (non-inflation adjusted numbers)

RTX 3090 - $1500 (we won't count the 3090 ti because global shortage)

RTX 2080 ti - $1200

GTX 1080 ti - $700

GTX 980 ti - $650

GTX 780 ti - $699

GTX 690 - $999

GTX 590 - $700

GTX 480 - $500

And yes. The Market determines the value of the product. No one needs to push a few more pixels faster sooner.

2

Jopojussi t1_iv171zp wrote

You can see the point when cryptominers started buying every single card, yet when theyre not buying them out anymore the price keeps still increasing, thats why im salty. And yes, as someone who pretty much plays only in vr, the frames are important.

3

asyrin25 t1_iv18w1u wrote

I mean...you realize that as someone who plays only in high refresh PC VR you are a niche of a niche of a niche of a rich person's hobby...right?

A niche that didn't exist when flagship GPUs were $500

3

Jopojussi t1_iv19gav wrote

Damn first time ive been called rich, im in the bottom 10% of my country wealthwise, thats why that price increase stings quite alot.

1

asyrin25 t1_iv19mbl wrote

You're in the bottom 10% of your country but you have a multi thousand dollar VR gaming setup for fun?

3

Jopojussi t1_iv1aeva wrote

Yes, also my pc cost about 1,4k so not really a multi thousand. I did save for quite a long time.

1

asyrin25 t1_iv1drc9 wrote

The bottom 10% in the US is $8800/yr.

That's $4000 below the federal poverty level.

Don't you need the money for...food? Or education? Or housing?

Or....anything more important than video games when you're cripplingly poor?

2

kryst4line t1_iv1regv wrote

I'm amazed of how suddenly you decided to change the topic.

1

asyrin25 t1_iv1ski9 wrote

I was responding to his responses.

Here, I'll sum the discussion up:

"PC Gaming is going to become niche if flagship cards are so expensive!"

"Flagship cards are already niche and have always been."

"But flagship cards used to be $400-$500!"

"It's been 12 years since the last $500 flagship card"

"Does that make it okay?"

"Yes, because this isn't a NEEDED product. The market will determine its worth."

"I play exclusively PC VR I need this product!"

"PC VR is sub niche of a sub niche of a rich person's hobby. It's okay for the market to decide the value of that."

"JK, I'm not rich, I'm actually cripplingly poor."

"You're cripplingly poor with a multi thousand dollar gaming setup?"

"It's actually only $1,400"

"Why do you have a $1,400 PC if you're cripplingly poor?"

Alrighty. All caught up?

1

mandelmanden t1_iv0vhgr wrote

Absolute bullshit. You don't need a flagship card to play games.

Most people have 1080p or 1440p panels. You can drive those with a 2-300$/€ GPU absolutely no issue.

You also don't need a 7950X or 13900K to play games. You also don't need 32gb DDR5.

3

jeanborrero t1_iv0rc53 wrote

Maybe the increased competition from the new intel gpu launch will help. Or maybe they raise their prices as well to cash in on the trend

2

iuthnj34 t1_iv29e6u wrote

Instead of focusing on new releases only, why not purchase 1-2 year old components?

AMD Ryzen 5 5800X - $200
Intel Core i7-11700 - $195

2

JustABitOfCraic t1_iv0oqjm wrote

Don't forget about cloud gaming. It'll come good within the next decade.

1

Ethario t1_iv0qk55 wrote

Cloud gaming will never be good, you can't travel faster than the speed of light so latency will always suck.

5

JustABitOfCraic t1_iv0slwx wrote

Latency isn't bottlenecked by the speed of light. And if you're always looking for the lowest latency you'll be stuck playing LAN parties. It's improving every year with Internet speeds exploding. It's far from perfect now but it'll get there.

−6

Ruma-park t1_iv0ud3i wrote

Of course latency is bottlenecked by the speed of light. It's the limit of how fast we can transmit information.

4

JustABitOfCraic t1_iv12rkk wrote

No it isn't. The switches and equipment slow it down. We're no where near sending and receiving data at the speed of light.

0

Ruma-park t1_iv19koo wrote

Whether we reach the limit or not, does not make it untrue.

Light speed is the ultimate bottleneck, we will never get faster than it.

3

JustABitOfCraic t1_iv1c628 wrote

Not really. Our equipment will never be as fast as the speed of light. So the equipment will always be the bottleneck.

−1

ltdanimal t1_iv1akfi wrote

This is like the "Nobody ever goes there, its too crowded!" line. If those companies are selling them at that price, then obviously people are buying them.

1

pasta4u t1_iv1htql wrote

Why?

To get ps5/xbox series x performance costs keep going down and its easier and easier to build computers that offer far greater performance.

1

garbo2330 t1_iv1p81d wrote

Huh? You can buy a 5600 for $140 right now and it’s capable of playing any game out there. Don’t be so dramatic.

1

J0n__Snow t1_iv0rjjm wrote

I just wanted to raise my finger and say, a decade agor the GTX x80 wasnt only 500 EUR. And then i googled and found out that the GTX680 in 2012 was indeed 550$.

6

ShutterBun t1_iv0vxwp wrote

Did prices increase from the 2080 to the 3080?

1

MorgrainX OP t1_iv09b3m wrote

ASUS
Asus TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 - 1.809,90 Euro
Asus TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 OC - 1.829,90 Euro
Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080 OC - 1.969,90 Euro
Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080 - 1.959,90 Euro

Inno3D
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 X3 - 1.619,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 X3 OC - 1.669,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 iChill X3 - 1.749,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 iChill Black - 1.899,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 iChill Frostbite - 1.819,90 Euro

MSI
MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming Trio - 1.699,90 Euro
MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming X Trio - 1.769,90 Euro
MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Suprim X - 1.869,90 Eur
---
(personal note)

Asus seems to have gone mad, I was already wondering why they priced the 4090 TUF and Strix extremely high, especially when comparing it to the Suprim X, but it seems that they have raised prices across the board.

That will probably also mean that the 7900 XTX Strix will cost somewhere in the 1400 € or more range (most US based companies have used the weak € (compared to Dollar, as of right now) as an excuse to raise prices by 20% compared to the US MSRP). That's disappointing for interested buyers.

47

swisstraeng t1_iv0jox9 wrote

2000 for a 4080!?!

14

drmirage809 t1_iv0p4bj wrote

Basically the default here in Europe for a 4090. They're starting at €2000. 4080s are looking at €1800 or €1900 ball park.

4

Caughtnow t1_iv0h2ri wrote

>Asus seems to have gone mad, I was already wondering why they priced the 4090 TUF and Strix extremely high, especially when comparing it to the Suprim X, but it seems that they have raised prices across the board.

And thats exactly why I went from a Strix to a Suprim XD

7

Coreshine t1_iv0hebu wrote

They just changed the first digit from 0 into 1 since last gen lmao

5

PARANOIAH t1_iv2r2tp wrote

Ridiculous pricing! It costs more than what I paid for a 4090!

1

Damneasy t1_iv0evtw wrote

I'm team red now, fuck nvidia

42

mixedd t1_iv0ipwt wrote

just don't expect that 7900 XTX will cost 999 Eur in Europe. It will more likely be 1200-1400 Eur

21

trisiton t1_iv0p4j9 wrote

1k cheaper for about 20-30% less RT performance is a steal. Nvidia is only preferable for productivity workloads now it seems.

11

Damneasy t1_iv0q9j9 wrote

I dont care about RT so its even better for me

8

mixedd t1_iv0rye2 wrote

Don't get me wrong, I'll grab 7900 XT or even XTX myself once they will be available (altough availability will be pretty hard topic after Dec 13th, especially in EU). For a gaming card Nvidia definetly asks way too much. Like c'mon, few years back PC build tgat could run everything on ultra costed same as they are asking for 4080-16 in EI

2

AustinLurkerDude t1_iv0u0tm wrote

Where did you find the benchmark results about 20-30% less RT perf? That's really surprising, I think its half the RT perf.

1

trisiton t1_iv0ugpx wrote

I made it the fuck up.

Jokes aside, I watched a LTT video today and those were the numbers I remembered for some reason, could be wrong.

6

Damneasy t1_iv0q7xh wrote

Yeah I know, 4090 is 2300 minimum here so

2

drmirage809 t1_iv0c7bc wrote

Nvidia are making a really good argument to go with AMD here. If 7900 XTX performance comes close enough to what a 4090 can do while using about 100 watts less and costing only two thirds the price then it should be a no-brainer (unless you really need CUDA for something).

21

Ethario t1_iv0qr3k wrote

Sorry I have AI waifus to generate.

6

0xWTC t1_ivc039m wrote

This is the reason those cards are expensive. This and crypto 😎

1

Juub1990 t1_iv0njld wrote

It won’t come close in RT which is the elephant in the room. It all depends how important RT becomes moving forward.

1

Pier126 t1_iv0mjgs wrote

I am unfortunately stuck with team green as I purchased a G-sync monitor that was quite expensive. I do like G-sync as well but, I am not going to pay 2000$ for a GPU. I guess I'll get a 3080 or 3080ti on sale.

0

LooseWetCheeks t1_iv10p76 wrote

I have a Gsync monitor and it works fine with 6900xt adaptive sync.

4

mixedd t1_iv0iayx wrote

1600+ Euro for XX80 series card, no thank you!
I can afford it, but i dont want to, it's like worst price performance case we seen in past decades

17

therealnai249 t1_iv0p4kf wrote

As far as my wallet is concerned the 30 series just launched.

11

EnsignElessar t1_ivp72ke wrote

I just got to laugh at them. 30s series was so popular and loved because of the value. And they went... "how do we ruin all that good will?"

1

carbine23 t1_iv0ecwm wrote

Y’all know y’all don’t gotta buy it right….? Lol I got a 3080ti and I’m set for years

10

trisiton t1_iv0pjcq wrote

You don’t get it bro if I don’t see my reflection in the skyscraper windows at 4k 144hz I can’t enjoy a game.

I have a 3070 laptop and I plan to stick with it until I can’t play the games I want to at medium settings while getting 60fps. Probably a good 5-6 years at least.

These guys buy flagship models every single generation and wonder why prices keep going up.

4

ValElTech t1_iv0e9yh wrote

Well, I'm snatching an extra 3080 just in case mine dies.

Those prices are insanity.

9

Kussypat t1_iv0if1r wrote

Honest question: Why should I buy a new graphics card when graphics in general is starting to stagnate so much? A (cherrypicked) example would be Gotham Knights that just came out, it honestly doesn't look all that much better than Arkham City which I played on my 770 perfectly fine. It somehow feels like certain devs have gotten worse at utilizing the graphic cards' ability or something.

6

Creepus_Explodus t1_iv0mf0s wrote

We've hit a point of diminishing returns with current graphics. We are very good at approximating the majority of real world effects at almost no cost to performance. But getting those last few effects is what's hard right now. Ray tracing is not only more computationally intensive, it also just hasn't had that much research done for optimising it for performance. All the ray tracing engines you see in 3D video production software are optimised for accuracy and flexibility. We don't just need more powerful hardware, we also need to figure out how to better utilise it for these new techniques, which takes time.

4

mcdougall57 t1_iv0qi8t wrote

I am honestly surprised they don't ship a standalone PCIe Ray tracing compute unit, purely consisting of RT cores for professionals (ala physx cards) as they stand to gain the most with quick building of lightmaps and scenes. The rest of us stand to gain very little because like you said, we have gotten very good at faking realistic lighting scenarios with high efficiency and brute forcing it sucks ass.

4

pinionist t1_iv2vsq9 wrote

It's called GPU rendering farm - each computer consisting of 2-8x GPUs linked and churning those pixels in Redshift, Blender, Vray etc.

1

0xWTC t1_ivc09yx wrote

AI is the only reason I see

1

extopico t1_iv0irjr wrote

How insane. It’s also insane that nVidia likely got the pricing right and these cards will sell out.

5

preytowolves t1_iv0rqk0 wrote

these cards are being used for more than gaming.

since its a deductible, the price isnt that much of a hurdle.

3

extopico t1_iv0vfx3 wrote

Yes I had scientific computing in mind where nVidia still dominates. Not sure about the size of this market or the crypto mining markets compared to gamer market.

1

preytowolves t1_iv10n8k wrote

crypto had apparently disproportionate influence on the pricing, even if niche.

there is also the cg industry. nvidia is de facto standard and seems it will stay that way for a while.

1

extopico t1_iv1ejws wrote

Well crypto was huge for nVidia before ethereum went to PoS. Now it can no longer be mined, hence the glut of 30x0 series cards. I did not know that CG industry was also captive.

1

preytowolves t1_iv2ig5r wrote

that is why I used past tense. and yes, many aspects of cg creation leverage nvidia proprietary algos. cant imagine using anything else other then nvidia cards, apple chips seems to be the only way to dislodge them in the future but probably never in terms of raw power…

1

Marcuskac t1_iv0ej1g wrote

AMD here I come

4

Ethario t1_iv0qtv1 wrote

Don't expect it to be much better lol.

1

mandelmanden t1_iv0wrh1 wrote

Well, if the MSRP is anything to go by it should be about half.

2

yogijarre t1_iv0ibji wrote

monolingual english speaking american; cant read it, what does it say the price is?

3

mandelmanden t1_iv0x1ee wrote

ASUS

Asus TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080, 1.809,90 Euro
Asus TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 OC, 1.829,90 Euro
Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080 OC, 1.969,90 Euro
Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080, 1.959,90 Euro
Asus TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 - 1.809,90 Euro
Asus TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 OC - 1.829,90 Euro
Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080 OC - 1.969,90 Euro
Asus ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080 - 1.959,90 Euro

Inno3D

Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 X3 - 1.619,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 X3 OC - 1.669,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 iChill X3 - 1.749,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 iChill Black - 1.899,90 Euro
Inno3D GeForce RTX 4080 iChill Frostbite - 1.819,90 Euro

MSI

MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming Trio - 1.699,90 Euro
MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Gaming X Trio - 1.769,90 Euro
MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Suprim X - 1.869,90 Euro

Currently the euro is 99 US cents, so x by 1.01 for price in US$.

3

Onichanlikesme t1_iv2fqze wrote

note this includes a 19% sales tax on them, so this is the final price.

US prices are always without any sales-tax included (which can vary from state to state and is on average like 5-10%)

2

BigCommieMachine t1_iv0rceg wrote

There probably won’t be enough electricity in Europe to run a single RTX 4090 anyways or they will at least turn to it heat homes.

3

viski252 t1_iv0fyhl wrote

Oh kurva. 1469.4€ ($1,199 = 1224.50€ + 20% VAT = 1469.4€) my ass.

2

Dry-Recognition-2626 t1_iv0wq2p wrote

I hear it comes with a free fire extinguisher, so that’s nice.

2

2worldsjoined t1_iv2dkky wrote

If these are the real prices, Nvidia is going to be absolutely crucified by AMD this generation.

2

viski252 t1_iv0gd9s wrote

I wonder if GPUs that were made In europe would be cheaper.

1

Landy0451 t1_iv0xs6z wrote

I guess those cards are useless if I want to play 1080p 60fps on the most recent games with everything at the maximum ? If that's the case, what would be a good GPU choice for this configuration ?

1

Akumetsu_F1 t1_iv2juin wrote

These 4080 cards are absolute overkill for 1080p@60fps. An Nvidia 3060 Ti or a Radeon RX 6600 XT or 6700 XT should be more than enough for your requirements. You can get any one of those GPUs at around 350 to 500 USD.

2

Skogkatt_Rust t1_iv101xw wrote

I switched from console to PC after PlayStation 2. I love both but PC gives me all I need in one place and I can make it last double.

1

colonelc4 t1_iv10ffk wrote

Bought my 3070 at MSRP, I play on a 1080P display, I think I'm good for the next 4 years, maybe by then they'll think again their prices.

1

LooseSignificance166 t1_iv1ba5v wrote

Amd is going to make a killing with their new cards. Real wonder is going to be can they produce enough. Nvidia has been screwing their customers for too long

1

RandEgaming_ t1_iv1lx9b wrote

this gpu cpu companies shoot themselves with this price increases every release meanwhile sony nad microsoft laughs with their console. I dont know why they dont understand that. i know they are greedy but didnt know they also dumb.

not helping that people always buy it just like pre-order in games

1

cyricor t1_iv2c7pc wrote

Placeholder prices probably

1

bodhi85uk t1_iv2egdq wrote

I thought about building a PC the other day. A 3050 alone costs more than my Series S did.

It’s not a question of affordability for me, it’s a question of justification. What does spending £800-1000 on an entry level machine actually get me, above and beyond my console?

Is whatever that is, actually worth a 3/4x cost of entry versus what I paid for my Series S? I just don’t see it anymore.

These prices, you could buy a PS5, Series X, Switch, and a Steam Deck for the same price as the flagship cards.

1

Plamcia t1_iv2h4bl wrote

Only idiots will pay 2000 euro for GPU that take so many power on currently power crisis. It takes too mu h power compare how much it give.

1

samplenull t1_iv3k03w wrote

For me, AMD this is the way.

1