HD 660S sounds MUCH better on my M1 MacBook than my desktop? Standalone AMP ideal?

Submitted by iSaithh t3_116x5qp in headphones

Ahoy! So up until now I've been completely ignorant about sound quality and simply used my sony bluetooth NC headhphones until I one day broke them trying to fold them up into their case. I ended up using my bluetooth earbuds I had for the meantime for a few months until I realized I can no longer stand the low quality playback and IEMs 24/7.

Well skip forward to a week ago after doing my usual reddit research and came upon the HD 660S for my ideal uses. I ended up getting them specifically as I was told it can be driven decently without an AMP/DAC (so I could use it on my tablet/phone with a dongle without too much of a setback), with the majority of people saying that its bad has mostly to do with for its price for value (400-500$ a few years back, 200* now) in comparison to the HD 600.

Once i put them on, I realized, wow, this is actually worse than the bluetooth ear buds I would use here and there. When I would listen to songs I use to before and compare them, it would always sound dark, flat, and more-like a speaker but just lower volume. This became even more apparent with this song specifically https://open.spotify.com/track/2sChoyJsa5j3JLnTtVx0S8?si=d5c0e4b80857416c , where the intro of the song would start off with switching audio channels from left to right and making it feel more vibrant on my earbuds, and not the headphones. I started looking into it and realized it has to do with stereo/mono but asfik on my windows PC, mono is off but the audio felt conjoined and lower quality when connected to my headphones.

Nonetheless, I started researching any issue that could be it, from taking them apart to compare drivers and see if it wasn't switched out, making sure my settings were correct, etc, and finally, my motherboard and the connection. I always saw online that half the people would say a DAC/AMP was needed while the other half would say its overblown and not needed for the 660S. So for fun, before I was going to issue a return, I connected it to my M1 and WOW, they were great. I wasn't kidding when all of a sudden the sound became crystal clear, vibrant, bright, great staging, especially vocals, and I could now hear sounds I never heard before when listening to my favorite soundtracks. Now whenever I want to start working/playing on my desktop I actually dread using the headphones on it because of how dark and speaker like they sound in comparison.

With that said, I also realized that despite them being really great on my M1, when I would put the volume higher up I would start to hear static/distortion of songs when there would be silence in some soundtracks.

I've come to the conclusion that the only difference between my M1 and Desktop is the internal DAC/AMP, as I heard the mac ones have decent built-in ones, and if its such a noticeable difference, what would be the most recommended AMP for use with my desktop? Would I also need a separate DAC assuming my motherboard isn't that great (budget built from awhile back)? And lastly, would the issue with the static at higher sounds be fixed (or improved at least) with a better standalone AMP? Thanks nonetheless!

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HaloEliteLegend t1_j99afnj wrote

Those M1 macs definitely have good DACs and decent enough amps, enough to get good sound out of those 660s (which seems like what you're getting!). If you're getting static at higher volumes, it definitely sounds like a bad dac/amp in your desktop motherboard.

Basically what you're likely hearing is electrostatic interference from the other electronics in your PC. An external dac/amp shields your audio from a lot of that interference. Also, the amp in your desktop may just be weak, or it may be a line out and not a headphone out. A line out is a very weak signal intended for further amplification.

Regardless, a dac/amp for your desktop definitely would not hurt! If I were you, I'd get one at some point. Generally, an amp is more important than a dac, but in your case, an external dac might help if the static/noise you're hearing really is from electronic interference.

You can get a dac/amp combo, which is convenient for a lot of people. I used to use a Fiio K5 Pro ($150) with my HD 650, and I'm sure they have never versions of those. They also have the E10K ($80) which is a bit cheaper and more portable. Though it's somewhat old now, so might be better options nowadays.

Schiit is also a popular option, with the Schiit Magni/Modi stack being a popular recommendation. I've used a Schiit Magni Heresy (amp) and can definitely vouch for it. I've also seen people recommend the Audioquest Dragonfly dac/amps, but I've never used those myself. And the JDS Labs Atom stack is a staple around here too. A Schiit Magni/Modi or JDS Labs Atom Dac/Amp stack could easily be all you ever need, plenty of power and very accurate measurement-wise. This option is ~$200 total for both a dac and an amp. Or $100 for each component separately based on your need.

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iSaithh OP t1_j99e35e wrote

>Generally, an amp is more important than a dac, but in your case, an
external dac might help if the static/noise you're hearing really is
from electronic interference.

Yup it does seem as though my Mac can be improved with a better amp while my desktop experience might be better improved with both a better AMP and DAC

>A Schiit Magni/Modi or JDS Labs Atom Dac/Amp stack could easily be all
you ever need, plenty of power and very accurate measurement-wise.

I see I see, I'd initially think that a combined AMP/DAC would be worse as generally thats how it goes for most electronics, though it seems to suffice for your 650S (which I assume is generally similiar to the rest of the 600 series)

That being said, thank you for giving me assurance that a standalone one would definitely improve my desktop experience, would you say r/AVexchange is a good place to look for used ones to pick up ?

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HaloEliteLegend t1_j99kvs3 wrote

A good combined amp/dac can be quite good, but depends on the product of course. The K5 Pro served me well, but it was a much better amp than it was a DAC haha. Definitely benefited from a better standalone DAC later, but I don't regret it as an entry-level unit for my HD 650. A combined unit is mostly for convenience and might be cheaper than separate units.

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>would you say r/AVexchange is a good place to look for used ones to pick up ?

Not sure, never visited that sub. I usually buy my audio stuff from Amazon or another site with a good return policy, in case I don't like it or it doesn't work as well as I thought it would. Have found good deals before on refurbished units. You could check a manufacturer's website for b-stock (items others bought but returned), for example.

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SoNic67 t1_j9al8k9 wrote

I am using for years now a Sound Blaster ZxR. It's sound is comparable with what you get from an external DAC plus entry level headphone amplifier.

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FromWitchSide t1_j9cidlh wrote

Sound Blaster Z > G6

I actually switched to Z from G6 just recently, such an improvement. The Z and ZxR differentiate in amp with ZxR using TPA6120 instead of JRC 2114. The chips configuration of ZxR is actually similar to my FX-Audio X6.

Only Z combined with an amp made my current production HD600 enjoyable. Neither G6, X6 or cheap dongles managed that.

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SoNic67 t1_j9d31lt wrote

The ZxR has also better DAC chips. Way better sounding IMO.

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FromWitchSide t1_j9d88cg wrote

Indeed, my bad - its PCM1794 instead of CS4398.

Although personally usually I can't identify chips by sound differences nor tell if the difference is in the chip or implementation of it. The Z is the first time since I've stopped using X-Fi where everything sounds properly, flat/no issues with tonality. I did look for ZxR prior, but it is a hard find, and I just came across Z for $39 from a friend. I do like it to the point Ive stopped feeling like I need to upgrade/buy something further... and I do feel like I wasted time and money with all those external solutions.

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blargh4 t1_j991vr7 wrote

Could also be some DSP effects turned on by default on the PC. MacOS doesn’t have anything like that, but some windows PCs do. Try disabling audio enhancements and seeing if that makes a difference.

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iSaithh OP t1_j993955 wrote

Yo! Yeah I actually thought that too at first, it was indeed turned on when I was looking into it a few days ago, but with both audio enhancement and mono being off on windows, it still sounded the same unfortunately :/

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Liopleurod0n t1_j99lyh6 wrote

Qudelix 5K is all you need in most cases. It has decent DAC performance and power, can do both USB and bluetooth and the parametric EQ is simply awesome. It's also portable with decent battery life.

The measurements doesn't look as good as the Topping or JDS gear but I can't tell the difference between the Qudelix and the headphone output of my MOTU M4.

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covertash t1_j999nwh wrote

> I ended up getting them specifically as I was told it can be driven decently without an AMP/DAC (so I could use it on my tablet/phone with a dongle without too much of a setback)

Assuming the dongle you are using may be one of the Apple ones, this would suggest there is some merit to the new Macs' high impedance headphone jacks after all:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212856

Fancy that. :)

As far as recommendations for budget amps, the usual suspects apply: JDS Atom, Schiit Magni variant, Monoprice Liquid Spark (currently on sale for $80 right now), and probably a few others.

Whether if you will need a separate DAC for your specific setup remains to be seen, so the only way to know is to try for yourself. But assuming the source of your static is caused by your motherboard's headphone jack running out of steam at high volumes, then yes, it should be rectified by adding an external amp alone. Otherwise, this is where an external DAC can come into play to completely take your motherboard audio out of the equation.

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iSaithh OP t1_j99dc4g wrote

I see, that does explain why my 660S work great with the Mac out of the box

>But assuming the source of your static is caused by your motherboard's
headphone jack running out of steam at high volumes, then yes, it should
be rectified by adding an external amp alone.

Noted! In that case I'll start looking into some decent AMPs with those and other recommendations and seeing how it improves it before getting a DAC, thank you for the clarification c:

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mcjasonb t1_j9aooq6 wrote

I have an M1 Air, and there is definitely something special going on in these. Everything I’ve plugged into the headphone jack on mine sounds great. Large stage, solid bass, clear everything, great dynamics. Really nothing to complain about with mine.

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AngusPicanha t1_j99iz1f wrote

Get a topping dx1 and call it a day

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Shatrtit t1_j99z5f2 wrote

My HD6XX sounds noticeably better on my 2012 motherboard than an E10K, which is probably more expensive than the whole motherboard, even had other people test and they prefer the motherboard. all running on 24bit 44100hz. but people on reddit will still tell me Its impossible xD

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flyedchicken t1_j9fzewe wrote

E10k has long been reviewed as making things sound bright, not too too surprised.. To most that characteristic wouldn't be a very good match for the 6xx's tuning. Even if the E10k costs more and maybe puts out slightly more power (though it doesn't put out much) there is still room for preference here.

It may not be worth it to you to find out, but I guarantee there is something out there that will make your 6xx sound better to you and all your friends than that 2012 motherboard does. The E10k just ain't it.

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Dust-by-Monday t1_j9amv9q wrote

How loud are you listening to them? I have the 660s and I am comfortable at 50% on my iPhone and at 4 notches on my M2 Mac mini (high impedance jack)

To my ears. They sound the same. I tried really hard trying to hear a difference and I couldn’t.

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LeEasy t1_j9ibp9l wrote

Cuz them both are bare minimum set up….. Try it on dedicated discrete systems you will find huge differences

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Dust-by-Monday t1_j9kfu1c wrote

Nah, don't think I will. The 660s are so freakin sensitive, if I try them on anything more powerful, I'll have to have the volume on like 1 to be comfortable hah

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entivoo t1_j9frndq wrote

Buy a FiiO K5 pro, it has a built in DAC and Amp in one device and you're good to go. Don't go with Toppings they are terrible. The treble sounds so harsh on toppings it is as if they boosted treble and bass to get that artificial clarity and dynamic punch.

Edit: Or if you're in the US perhaps Schiit products would be a better pick than Chi-fi products. Get a magni+modi stack or if you want an all in one solution (with DACs and amp inside), Schiit Fulla & Hel will do a great job.

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ducky92fr t1_j9j517c wrote

Man i felt the same yesterday when switching to my macbook pro. :( im not sure if it’s just some psychological feeling or it’s real.

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No-Context5479 t1_j99t3nz wrote

You don't need a standalone Amp... Your Mac won't break a sweat powering these to deafening volumes... But unless you want the fancy physical volume knob... It's a waste of money, u/iSaithh

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