Would an Amp/DAC bring any audible improvement?

Submitted by TheBlackFatCat t3_yeq8dm in headphones

Just got a pair of Sennheiser HD560s in the mail and was worried my laptop wouldn't be able to drive them to an acceptable volume due to them having a higher impedance than my dt770 pro (32 ohm version). Tried them and the volume is more than fine, I listen to music at around 14% with no amp. Would a dedicated amp or DAC bring any difference to the audio quality or should I just keep my current setup?

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pineapplecooqie t1_itzckrx wrote

keep your current setup if you're getting enough volume.

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Aracari_LoA t1_itzgsro wrote

Chances are you won't hear a difference. A dac/amp isn't worth getting for most people.

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GarenYondem t1_itzskes wrote

Depends on your laptop. If it has a low-quality circuit and causes noise in the audio output, yes, an external DAC/AMP will make a dramatic difference. It doesn't have to break the bank though, $50-60 DAC/AMP dongle even will fix that.

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QTIIPP t1_itzsovc wrote

Any audible difference? I’d argue yes. However, it may be very minor, even to the point that you might not notice without knowing exactly what to listen for.

Many people in this community have done a poor job educating newcomers and learners on the difference and significance of sensitivity ratings and Impedance ratings for headphones. People just throw around vague terms like “hard to drive”.

Here’s a quick (imperfect) analogy I just came up with to start: sensitivity relates to horsepower and Impedance relates to torque… depending on the car/race type (headphone), you will benefit or need more of one or the other, but often horsepower is the first one we look at in most cases.

The generalized summary is that sensitivity rating will make a bigger impact on amp needs than impedance. Sensitivity rating is basically saying how loud the headphone is at a given power rating, so it’s the first thing you’ll notice. Low and high impedance do play a role in volume, but it’s much less impactful - it’s role more revolves around how well it’s driven at a given level and can react to sudden large demands from the driver (torque).

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IAmAgainst t1_itzvhnf wrote

I went from a Sound Blaster card to a fiio e10k and then an SMSL c200, the difference between the last two is quite small, but the jump from PC to the e10k was abysmal.

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blah618 t1_iu03fga wrote

depends on your current laptop dac, and the setup you buy, and what you listen to. But most likely, there will be a difference

the question you should ask is not whether or not there will be a difference, but whether you like the difference and if it is worth paying extra for

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Shiro_Hayate t1_iu04ya1 wrote

I spent $400 on a Valhalla II and have to spend $130~ every year to replace the tubes.

Is it worth it? Fuck no.

Does it make my HD800S sound better? Yes.

Would I have bought one for my 660S? No.

Would I buy one for a HD560S? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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Xamust t1_iu05qib wrote

If you’re using windows and locally stored files (ie not Spotify) and don’t mind using something like Foobar2000 or JRiver. Then some amp/dac combos will sound better. Don’t expect to be blown away by the difference though.

If you’re streaming music and movies a dac/amp combo should give you some appreciable improvement, but the difference is even less so.

I tried my onboard sound card compared to a sound blaster zxr card on my Audiotechnica Ath-MSR7 ( I think). The sound blaster was noticeably better, but $200 better…that’s up for debate.

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blargh4 t1_iu061vu wrote

Probably not, but peace of mind is worth something. If it's not noisy, I wouldn't bother, that's the main problem with computer audio outputs in my experience.

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IAmAgainst t1_iu06vuu wrote

Replying to -kerosene- (#260,816)

Yes, really big. And that was many years ago when I had a pair of €25 HD220, with better headphones it's probably more noticeable but I can't confirm that. I'd recommend you to get the one I have so you're set for good instead of getting a cheap one, discovering what a difference it makes and then getting a better one leaving the first one obsolete.

And another benefit of having a dac is getting a constant sound quality regardless of what device you use as a source. Maybe your PC produces a decent sound but your phone doesn't so you'll be stuck with the device that sounds good. Which btw is a good reason for not going with one that takes power from the USB like my previous e10k.

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Randolph_Carter_666 t1_iu07zr3 wrote

I have a Fosi Audio DS1. I feel it improves the sound overall. I've compared my headphone jacks from my Samsung tablet and my two laptops.

When streaming Ultra HD on my Alienware, I checked the bitrate... 24 bit at 48khz. The Fosi allows 24 bit at 96khz.

Careful, though... the amp allows for much louder volume!

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one_broken_man t1_iu0bcct wrote

I honestly don't think so. Listening to music at that volume indicates that your laptop has more than enough to power the headphones. Sure, the circuitry is inferior to a standalone dac/amp, but I don't believe the difference would be that noticeable and your ears will adapt anyway.

If possible, buy one from a place that has good customer service and return it if you don't think it's worth the money. I've solved many curiosities of mine this way.

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SiegwardZwiebelbrudi t1_iu0fajl wrote

honestly amps don´t actually exist, if you believe a big part of this community (its only a cable that connects input and output and a knob that leads to nowhere)

Jokes aside though, we look at a Headphone from two perspectives, sensitivity and driver resistance, impedance is variable between 130 and 240 Ohm and sensitivity is 246mV for 94db, which is below average.

now for variable impedance headphones you want an amp with low output impedance and that sensitivity will also benefit from an amp.

​

now to adress that myth, if its loud enough you don´t need an amp, there are factors that are typically forgotten. consumer amps (including whats in your laptop) typically don´t clip, when a song is too demanding (especially concerning low frequencies) instead it just delivers less power...bass is weak.

also you would want a little bass eq with the 560s, where unfortunately those cans already show more distortion than others...having a better amp here won´t hurt.

​

my last argument is that you achieve basically an end to this stupid discussion with spending 200€. the topping dx3 pro+ will drive any normal headphone perfectly, except fringe cases, like the hifiman he6. This is a 1200€ headphone though, and when you reach that point, well it wouldn´t hurt to reconsider amps as well.

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SiegwardZwiebelbrudi t1_iu0j8kf wrote

Replying to szakee (#262,700)

Somehow Reddit has a copy/paste bug for several months now, but i wrote a comment touching on most amp qualities, and would only add that something like noise floor will improve and some internal desktop amps have noise issues resulting from current leakage...the rest is mentioned in my comment.

sorry reddit hates me and won´t let me paste it here

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SiegwardZwiebelbrudi t1_iu0vb5t wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#264,370)

honestly amps don´t actually exist, if you believe a big part of this community (its only a cable that connects input and output and a knob that leads to nowhere)

Jokes aside though, we look at a Headphone from two perspectives, sensitivity and driver resistance, impedance is variable between 130 and 240 Ohm and sensitivity is 246mV for 94db, which is below average.

now for variable impedance headphones you want an amp with low output impedance and that sensitivity will also benefit from an amp.

​

now to adress that myth, if its loud enough you don´t need an amp, there are factors that are typically forgotten. consumer amps (including whats in your laptop) typically don´t clip, when a song is too demanding (especially concerning low frequencies) instead it just delivers less power...bass is weak.

also you would want a little bass eq with the 560s, where unfortunately those cans already show more distortion than others...having a better amp here won´t hurt.

​

my last argument is that you achieve basically an end to this stupid discussion with spending 200€. the topping dx3 pro+ will drive any normal headphone perfectly, except fringe cases, like the hifiman he6. This is a 1200€ headphone though, and when you reach that point, well it wouldn´t hurt to reconsider amps as well.

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IAmAgainst t1_iu0vvvj wrote

Replying to Leather_Vegetable10 (#264,127)

I don't remember what SB it was since we're talking of six or five years ago, but it wasn't high end. In any case, I'm never going back to a sound card no matter how good they sound since an external dac is always going to sound better and, most importantly, it's fixed inside the PC. You can take the dac to a couch, nightstand or wherever.

For a multiple channel speakers system used with the PC only then yes, a sound card is definitely more practical.

Edit: I just googled the G6 and saw it's a dac, I assumed it was a sound card, which is what I meant in my first comment.

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audioen t1_iu31rpn wrote

Replying to TheBlackFatCat (#256,453)

I would actually get this $10 dongle just in case anyway, it can serve as a reference to check whether things are okay. You don't have to use it if you don't think it improves anything, but it is a trivial investment to answer a question you might not be able to answer otherwise. Based on the fact that you have 560S with a pretty high impedance measurement of 133 to 224 ohms (with nominal given as 120 ohms) I think any device with minimal attention to quality ought to be able to drive this headset correctly, but perhaps you want to buy other headsets one beautiful day.

The Apple dongle has been measured and is known to be an accurate DAC+amp combo, with 0.5 (EU) or 1 V (US) maximum output (so it can't drive high impedance and low sensitivity devices that typically want higher voltages than that), but it has very low 0.9 ohm output impedance so it can correct for frequency response errors that occur when high output impedance drives impedance load that varies by sound frequency.

The error comes from voltage drop that occurs somewhere in the output plug's electronics where voltage drops below expected because the headset wants more current than the output stage is capable of producing due to its internal resistance. There is a rule of thumb that says that output impedance should be at most 1/8th of the lowest impedance of the headset, e.g. if headset is 120 ohms, then you should have at most 15 ohm output impedance (which I daresay is an easy requirement, though some mobos have been measured to have more than that). This should limit errors related to output impedance to level that is probably not audible, to a small fraction of a dB.

There are barely any headsets with impedance less than 10 ohm. I happen to have Crinacle x Truthear Zero which actually has 10-20 ohm impedance in such a way that it has a crossover internally where 20 ohm impedance is with the bass and 10 ohms otherwise, and it benefits from low output impedance amplifier or the bass increases too much. So I use the Apple USB-C dongle for those because otherwise it becomes pretty bass-heavy in one laptop, though it is actually fine in another.

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