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heinzbumbeans t1_itjz5m8 wrote

Reply to comment by AramaicDesigns in Halloween in Scotland: 13 ancient customs and concepts of Celtic Halloween by MeatballDom

Actually, it appears the Romans were influenced by celts.

>By 43 A.D., the Roman Empire had conquered the majority of Celtic territory. In the course of the 400 years that they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain

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thefrostmakesaflower t1_itkgo71 wrote

Romans never conquered Ireland, Samhain is still the word for November in the Irish lanaguage. We consider it an Irish celtic holiday but I’m sure other celts were involved. Irish celts went to Scotland so make sense their is a connection

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Scandalous_Andalous t1_itlbh3u wrote

The Romans never fully colonised / Romanised Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, Brittany and large parts of Iberia hence the survival of those Celtic languages through to modern times.

Samhain or Sauin was observed by Gaelic Celts throughout Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man. But Brittonic Celts from Brittany, Cornwall and Wales also held similar festivals - called Calan Gaeaf in Wales, Kalan Gwav in Cornwall and Kalan Goañv in Brittany.

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thefrostmakesaflower t1_itlipca wrote

That’s cool about the other celtic nations, I figured there would be over lap culturally. I have to add that the Romans never invaded Ireland, there were some trade links but that’s about it.

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Swartsuer t1_itk5dlz wrote

Do you maybe have an other source? This one leads to a 404. The important thing here would be the question of area - did only the conquered Celts (now officially Roman citizens) incorporate their old holidays in the Roman calendar? Or did the Roman calendar in regions like Sicily change?

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heinzbumbeans t1_itk964j wrote

sorry, dont know what went wrong. ill try again but less fancy. https://www.history.com/topics/halloween/history-of-halloween#:~:text=The%20tradition%20originated%20with%20the,of%20the%20traditions%20of%20Samhain.

and another incase that didnt work:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Halloween

im no expert, i was just curious by what you said so looked it up. im doing so, i assumed that what you said about the romans having halloween in 600ish was true, and so when i read about Samhain and it coming before that, i reckoned the romans must have been influenced by the celts rather than the other way around, since Samhain does sound awfully halloweeny, what with the dressing up to ward off/fool spirits and the portals to the spirit world and such, (im scottish and was taught the last part as a child, i have no idea if that idea extends to america and elsewhere) whereas the roman festivals around the same time sound far less halloweeny.

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AramaicDesigns t1_itky2pv wrote

Britanica repeats a number of woozles about Halloween that – despite having a citation pedigree – do not have primary historical sources to support them.

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SeleucusNikator1 t1_itqdlt5 wrote

Would those Celtic territories celebrate Samhain in the same manner we think of? I think it's often understated that there was plenty of inner-Celtic diversity, for instance Irish and Scottish Gaelic are quite distinct from Welsh and Breton languages. The Romans largely only ruled over the Gauls, Britons, Iberians, etc. but never bothered with the Goidelic groups.

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