Mine's not even remotely related to "I cannot own a gun" because I already sort of can't (legally I can, but for my own safety I cannot) and have zero interest in owning one because I have no interest in hunting. It's definitely not an "important cultural aspect" for a lot of people.

I do not want to be involuntarily committed because I do not want to lose my right to my dignity, to my possessions, and I absolutely do not want to lose control of pretty much everything. I don't want to sit in a psych ward that is understaffed, in clothes that aren't mine, without the objects I use to comfort myself, being forced to take medication that I am afraid of having a bad reaction to.

I do go to therapy, and I do take my meds. But I often will shy away from discussing my suicidal thoughts with my therapist because I am TERRIFIED of being locked up. I had a not-stellar childhood that involved pretty strict control from one of my parents, and getting committed would actively make that trauma so much worse.

lol I worked hospital security...somewhere, and I would be afraid. Potential for a minimum 72 hour eval in a disgusting, locked down mental health unit in the emergency room with all your belongings taken from you and having to wear itchy paper scrubs you can't hang yourself with. Legitimately losing your freedom. One time a persons trailer park supervisor filled out paperwork on them and they got brought in by the PD. Taken in cuffs from their home because someone else said they were suicidal. Fucking ridiculous. Then if you do have issues, you'll probably be stuck there for weeks eating meds all day just to get through your misery while you wait to be sent to the state hospital for actual treatment, and be miserable there too. If you get pissed and freak out? Restrained to the bed and meds in your ass. The systems fucked, nurses crying at work and shit because it's all so fucked.

Every state has a different threshold for which a person can be placed in a secure psychiatric facility against their will. It used to be my job to be the person to make these decisions at a particular agency in Vermont. Here we pretty much have the highest bar for that to be able to occur. A person must be a danger to themselves or others and there must be no other lesser restrictive option to ensure safety before a person can be involuntarily hospitalized.

For a very small group of people this may prevent them from seeking treatment but most of the time it is lack of services. The mental health system in this country is in shambles and has been for decades.

Maybe that's a factor for some individuals, but for the majority, I would guess it's simply the cost and difficulty of finding someone to take your issues seriously and work with you over time to discover the best course of treatment. It can be a difficult process even in an area with plenty of services available, and sometimes the same issues that lead you to seek help make it that much harder to keep fighting an uphill battle.

If you are having a "crisis" and go to an ER seeking help and say the "wrong" thing you will get locked up. If there is any way in the mind of the ER doctor that you might have said the "wrong thing" you will get locked up. It's not that they want to help you, it's that they don't want any liability of having seen you and then being liable for anything you might do after they release you. So off to the mental health unit you will go. Simply for them to avoid liability. You have no legal recourse.

A police officer does not have this kind of power - if you were arrested you would get to go before a judge to be considered for bail. But an ER doctor simply needs to write "S.I." on a form and sign it and you will be on your way to being locked up. No further review, and, the people that take you may not have any interest in treating you - you will simply be held until they get around to saying that you've stayed long enough.

Sucks. I would never -ever- talk to a medical doctor about my psychiatric issues.

I think it's more the "incarcerated by a company with a profit motive to keep you locked up" thing.

Yes. I have had suicide attempts and will not go to the ER. I had to superglue my arm shut. Because I will not be committed again. I'd literally rather die.

Psych wards are terrible. Been committed a couple times, not sure why people think that taking someone away from everything they have, stripping them of their belongings and in some cases putting them into financial hardship by not being able to work nor afford the medical care forced apon them. All being committed ever taught me was how to lie better so I don't end up back there.

I'd say the bills that result from it and the difficulty of finding a practitioner (especially one on your insurance if you don't have the $$$ for out of pocket/out of network) that's taking new patients are far larger obstacles for most.

Being involuntarily committed is/should be basically for if you're actively suicidal (or homicidal, I suppose). There's certainly cases where I can imagine it's a significant deterrent, but I also can't see a system where that isn't an available tool as reasonable either.

> As many people know, if you're involuntarily committed you lose your right to legally own a firearm,

I would generally suggest changing this to "with some kind of determination of illness by the institution" to at least reduce the chance that your rights are limited by just the opinions of one practitioner. If you got put on a 72hr hold and their opinion at the end of it is...."you're fine", that obviously shouldn't disqualify you.

I'd also prefer to see that have some kind of time-related sunset. If you were involuntarily committed once 20 years ago and have had no further interactions with the wrong side of the law/mental health interventions - I don't think that says much about your mental state now.

If you were involuntarily committed 6 months ago....you probably shouldn't be owning a firearm right now.

Where I do think gun control makes for a significant deterrent to accessing mental healthcare is in places that potentially put receiving any mental healthcare as a potential disqualifier for firearms ownership. NYC for example - requires disclosure of all mental healthcare received and medications, and is likely to try to refuse to issue a permit for any history.

I can definitely say that i know people who feel that if they're honest about how often they have intrusive thoughts of this, that they risk getting a grippy-sock vacation.

I think most of us cannot be experts on this delicate subject, as the foundation of my reply. But I feel that people are generally afraid of being judged, and that mental health is the most invasive, vulnerable way to be judged that we have come up with.

Being judged makes us feel very strongly about many topics, all of them divisive. And part of being judged is our inclusion within, or deliberate exclusion without, a community.

That every human is always a single sentence away from losing their entire tribe of family, friends, and neighbors is what makes us all so fragile in this regard. (Hagrid: "Should not have said that")

So to be so vulnerable as to seek some mental health when you might need it, I'd have to salute or comfort anyone willing to do that because I share the world with that person, we don't experience it separately. And I can feel the nakedness and embarrassment of someone sharing that they've needed mental health because it's so profitable to judge and shame and ostracize. Kick the people who are down, it's the quickest win.

Just like we're all one sentence away from destroying our connection to people, we're all one bad experience away from losing our mental health. I believe that if you can view people through this lens that it's the tiniest bit easier to accept how precarious a situation we all are in and how much we might prefer we were all a little more accepting of each other at the outset of that one bad event.

I'm completely unqualified to have any opinion on this other than as being a person, though.

That's part of it. Involuntary commitment seems little better than prison.

Plus I'd assume inadequate resources and long wait list. On top of the usual problem of finding an adequate and compatible therapist.

I doubt gun rights are a major factor.

Short answer- yes.

If someone is even remotely needing involuntary hospitalization, guns are the least of their worries. And quite frankly, I’d venture to guess most people committed involuntarily should not have access to guns. This is a weird ass post

I worked law enforcement for 8 years. No one wants to be locked up in any sort. Regardless if they deserve it or not.

I think the difficulty in finding mental health assistance is the biggest deterrent.

Mental health care here in new hampshire is a joke. I'm currently waiting to get in with a therapist and it's been eight weeks. I've gone to the ER in the past for attempts twice only to walk out a few hours later after being told by the crisis counselor "you are young, your parents love you. Quit doing this stuff for attention"(newsflash: this happened almost five years ago and my parents were incredibly emotionally abusive I was in fact NOT attention seeking...fuck you community partners). I'm in a safe and loving place now but I'm lucky to have friends who care about me and were able to assist me in escaping an abusive home situation and get to a better place

I voluntarily committed after a suicide attempt, and they held me for two months once they learned I had a child. When I decided to go in, I called a close friend (who was also a mother) and asked if she would keep and care for him while I got some help. He was perfectly safe, I got updates during my daily phone call with her (they take your cell phone, but allow two 15min calls from the desk a day).

I didn't bring him up at first because I was nervous about how they'd react, and sure enough, they upped my medication dosage and all of my talk sessions became about him, and where he was. I held the line "He's safe with a family member." Until they ran out of steam. Longest two months of my life, I will never go back if I can help it.

The thing is, once you're in, you're powerless.

I work in a hospital and we had someone come into the emergency room seeking psych help. We were full in the general ward and couldn't admit her. We called every hospital in the state and as soon as they heard she was self admitting for psych they all said no. Psych help in this state is atrocious.

People involuntarily committed go through a court hearing to determine if they are a danger to themselves or others. They also have a representative or can hire one of their own for this. Sometimes they are let out at this point. But if multiple people determine you’re worthy of commitment, it’s pretty dire.

It’s probably the label and easy access to medical records by nurses and everyone else that make people hesitant

Hello, EMT here. There’s a difference between being involuntarily committed and voluntarily. Typically what will happen is that someone, either the patient themselves or close friend, family member, etc, will call with concern about the patient’s mental health. This can be suicidal thoughts, aggressive behavior, etc. Police and myself get called, police make sure that the person is not an immediate danger to others so that I can come in. I’ll come in, find out what’s going on and the backstory. Usually, the patient says, yes, I’ve been having some mental health issues, I want to go to the hospital. They ride in the back and everything is cool.

That is voluntary admission. The patient does so of their own free will.

Involuntary admission is when the patient presents and imminent danger to themselves or others as determined by myself and/or PD and they are refusing treatment or at least transport and evaluation by the hospital psychologist. Because they are a danger, they are involuntary brought in by PD and treatment proceeds from there.

Whether that distinction is made in the law, I do not know, but there is a difference between the two

It took me a long time to seek help, yes, having my rights restricted were part of it. But I was also worried about if it would impact my work, or ability to find future employment.

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I really do feel for anyone battling these issues. I can’t imagine the hell and torture it must be to live like that everyday. But a poor woman getting raped in a Manchester cemetery, a beautiful couple getting murdered on a walk in Concord, a baby left to die in the freezing cold, thousands of vehicles and catalytic converters stolen and homes broke into. People getting accosted walking to work on Elm Street. Entire public spaces taken over and completely destroyed. At what point do the rest of us get to say it’s not fair that we are being victimized as well?

Maybe I’m just sorta in a bubble but I’ve never heard of this being a concern for people. More just that they can’t make the time, find the energy, or the money to pay for mental health services - or they are skeptical of medication or therapy based treatment effectivity.

I also think that, for the majority of people in the state seeking mental health treatment, there’s no (general) risk really at all of being involuntarily committed, because they’re suffering from ongoing malaise-type disorders like depression and anxiety.

Even if they’re in a depressive crisis, they still have their wits about them - but also they’ve never sought general therapy/psychiatric treatment before, so why would they make a call to emergency services if they felt suicidal?

fear of being involuntarily committed is a problem

google says this is extremely rare

I’d say the reason we have a lot of suicides involving firearms in this country is because people think you lose your gun rights if you’re admitted to a psych hospital or any facility to seek mental health treatment. The key thing is that you have to be involuntarily committed, meaning if you go willingly, you’re probably going to be fine when it comes to maintaining your rights.

I think people are seeking mental health help, but the waits are literally like 8 months long.

Many years ago, the fear of that definitely made me be more closed off initially with my therapist at the time, when I was having issues with intrusive thoughts. Which is a problem, because the root of that problem is fear anyway. Damn positive feedback loops.

The solution in my experience was that I grew to trust that provider. Also, realizing that it’s an irrational fear in my case. They don’t send you on a grippy socks vacation for suicidal thoughts, if you don’t also have a plan and intent.

Also, uhh, you must not live here… Statistically speaking, one of my two neighbors almost certainly owns a gun, but it’s not a cultural thing here at all. If you assume Northern New England is like the rest of rural white America culturally, you’ll constantly miss the mark due to stereotypes. It’s the least religious area in the country, and people keep their religion to themselves for the most part. Guns are similar. Most people don’t really flaunt them around here like you’d see down south. Unless they’re a Free Stater or you saw them using a gun (ie. backyard target shooting, hunting, etc), you probably wouldn’t know if they owned one. Guns aren’t a personality around here.

Is this... really a potential outcome to seeking help? I've never even considered that a possibility. I mean, I probably don't have the type of mental problems that would make that an appropriate response. But how many people are really at risk for that?? Are there that many people walking around who are a danger to themselves and others? And you're saying those people are likely to be gun owners?

I would think the main reasons people don't get help are financial costs, and social stigmas, with a side of "tried that and had a bad or unproductive experience".

Edit: Well I wasn't worried about this before, but after reading the comments, I'm terrified! What the kind of bullshit is that? It's like a hell that anyone could be dragged off to if the wrong person hears you say the wrong thing? Where you have to pay thousands of dollars to be imprisoned against your will and mistreated?

Sick bastards.

I think more than anything it’s still the stigma. Took a long time to admit I had issues with anxiety because I was so worried what people would think. Then even when I admitted to myself I should speak to someone I’d literally run into and out of the therapist’s office to avoid being seen. Until we treat getting help for mental health issues like any other health problem I’m sure a lot of people are going to avoid seeking treatment.

We should remove the prohibition on owning firearms for people who have been involuntarily committed.

There is zero need to own a gun.

There is an absolute need for mental health.

If someone is questioning which is priority I earnestly hope they get the help they need.

That said, cost has to be the larger prohibitive factor.