Do the people who work in Portsmouth live in Portsmouth?

Submitted by Jpf123 t3_zohs0u in newhampshire

My family visits Portsmouth once a year so that we can get together with our relatives who live in NH and ME.

Every time I visit Portsmouth it feels cozy and I’d love to work and live there but can’t afford $2,000 dollar rents. Similarly when I look for rental housing in the area there doesn’t seem to be much- especially for a reasonable price.

Where do most of the people who work in Portsmouth live? With their families?

Where/how do they find and afford places to rent?

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gogoalix t1_j0nitsj wrote

I work in Portsmouth and no one I work with can afford to live here. Everyone lives in towns nearby -- Kittery, Eliot, Dover, Barrington, Lee...

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Loud_Difference9660 t1_j0n185c wrote

Rochester/dover. And the rents a lot more than $2,000 for the most part in Portsmouth...

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jlangemann-man t1_j0q9gdj wrote

Rents are over $2k for anything new or remotely updated in Dover as well

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11_Wolfie_11 t1_j0pkf1n wrote

Try Dover. But to be honest with you, rent is insane everywhere in NH, at the moment. Good luck finding a 1br shoebox for less than 11-1200.

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halcyonictonic t1_j0n7m92 wrote

I don't know very many people who work in Portsmouth and actually live there. Most live in the surrounding towns (Dover, Somersworth, Rochester, Newmarket, etc) and even those places are getting pretty expensive.

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twosunsyzygy t1_j0nbc64 wrote

Some do, but not many. A workforce housing apartment building opened downtown over the summer with ~150 one and two-bedroom apartments starting at 500 sqft and $900/mo. The rents are capped at around $1400 I believe and applicants who work downtown get priority.

It’s not much but it’s something. Supposedly PHA is working on a new lot for more workforce housing

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0nv0t7 wrote

This sounds ideal. If only we could get much more of this all across the nation.

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Darrenanity t1_j0nw8gf wrote

I think it depends on what you do. I would say the vast majority of the people living in Portsmouth that still work are working locally or from home (remotely). There’s a lot of business in Portsmouth compared to a fairly small population, so realistically not everyone that works here could live here…there just isn’t enough space.

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comefromawayfan2022 t1_j0q9rz7 wrote

I can only use Portsmouth hospital for an example because that's where I volunteered and I know a ton of people who worked there. Some of the people I knew did live in Portsmouth or the surrounding towns like rye and new castle but a lot of the people lived in Dover,Durham, Rochester, Barrington,Lee,madbury,heck even Strafford and commuted in. I know for a fact that for awhile Portsmouth hospital had a rule that if you worked in a job that requires you to be on call you either had to live within so many miles of the hospital or stay in house(meaning sleep in the hospital) if you were on call.

One of my friends mentioned that she could leave the hospital and do things within Portsmouth when she was on call but she was required to be within a 20 minute drive from the hospital so she couldn't go far

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brain_freese t1_j0r0y3f wrote

I stayed in Strafford when I worked out there. Beautiful little town.

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comefromawayfan2022 t1_j0r1m7l wrote

Yeah I lived in Strafford for 3 and a half years and loved it. At one point I lived within walking distance of the bow lake beach

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AppropriateAd5325 t1_j0nv9oe wrote

We bought our place just before real estate went nuts. If we hadn’t? There’s no way we could afford to live and work here.

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Testing1102 t1_j0qkgxg wrote

My fiancee works there and we used to rent in Portsmouth until a couple years ago.

We bought our home in a different town and she commutes now.

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0qt1mv wrote

Do you mind if I ask when you were there and how much your rent was?

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Testing1102 t1_j0r2cq7 wrote

I was in Atlantic Heights and it was $1700 for 2 bedroom, 600 SQ ft.

I moved just before covid hit

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0r2m8m wrote

Thanks! I appreciate the quantitative data.

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OkLime8702 t1_j0nhtr9 wrote

I really can’t wrap my head around it. What has happened to housing in the area is mind boggling since 2019. I think it’s a bubble that is about to burst but to be fair a ton of people have moved to Portsmouth and surrounding areas and it’s just not that big of a city so there are land constraints.

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0nvca5 wrote

It’s so dark that “it’s a bubble” has become the hopeful cry of a generation plus of people.

Yet I hope you’re right

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tiddervul t1_j0ragfy wrote

It’s pure supply and demand. The people who live in these towns do not want more housing build, especially anything a younger person and family can afford. So the zoning rules and permitting process is so difficult and costly that it doesn’t happen.

Why don’t they want young families? My tax bill is ~64% spent on schools. Every little cherub costs almost $20,000 per year. Much more if they have some special needs. A family with 3 kids will cost almost 3/4 million in current dollars through high school. That household will pay less than 10% of the costs with their tax bill and of course they also get roads, police, fire, dump / trash etc.

Towns are way better off attracting older empty nesters or a massive airbnb population who uses a lot less for the same tax payment.

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OkLime8702 t1_j0rxihl wrote

Nobody wants to live in an Airbnb town either so that’s one thing. Secondly, yes it is supply and demand. 2021 and 2022 saw a massive multi year pull forward in demand while supply remained fix as it takes time to build supply. 2023 and 2024 will see a bullwhip effect of that which will be characterized by lower than average demand and finally the new supply coming to market.

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OkLime8702 t1_j0nwf82 wrote

I’m by no means hoping but the evidence is plain as day when you dig into it empirically.

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Fun-Peach-5056 t1_j0q8a08 wrote

From my experience, when rent got crazy in Mass I started seeing a lot of their license plates showing up as renters near me in south side Manchester. That caused a shortage of availability and the eventual price increases we see now. Also the low interest rates caused a lot of local businessmen to start buying up properties above the prices of individual buyers to either flip or rent at a premium

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Remarkable_Culture97 t1_j0q9p6c wrote

UNH is right there. Rents will cost you in a 25 mile or better radius.

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Different_Ad7655 t1_j0rkl83 wrote

How much work is there in Portsmouth? The backbone of the place used to be the shipyard and that was always contested exactly where that lay for tax purposes. I remember Portsmouth in the '60s when it was a complete dump like Newburyport and Salem. How it's also changed. I also remember the horrible Urban renewal on the west side when the small Italian neighborhood and it's Victorian buildings was demolished. It would be interesting to know how many employment opportunities , in numbers Portsmouth offers at the moment.

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picklehaub t1_j0vvngj wrote

Shipyard is still open, most of the employees live up the Piscataqua one way or the other (Eliot, Berwick, Dover, Rochester)

There are plenty of jobs in Portsmouth, lots of retail and white collar downtown and more industrial than you would think out Lafayette and on the margins.

One just needs to look at the General Sullivan Bridge between 6-9am and 330-630pm every weekday to know if there are any jobs. Not everyone is going to Massachusetts.

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0rkwdg wrote

Similar things could be said of Boston proper, I think. Shipyards used to be a bustling business and we’re having major issues with the Jones Act and not having enough U.S flagged and built ships..

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Inariele t1_j0nuxo2 wrote

i lived and worked 3 years ago in Portsmouth, but we have a dual income, so we were able to make it. However, many of my coworkers lived in the surrounding towns. We have since moved to a more affordable area and we are both working from home or dover

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brain_freese t1_j0r0u21 wrote

I worked in Portsmouth and did NOT live there. About 10 years ago, rents were about 150% higher than other nearby towns (Somersworth, Rollinsford, etc)

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snuffleog t1_j0v04ae wrote

i work in stratham but moved here to live in portsmouth. rent is ridiculous. i have a shitty 2bedroom that is about 2200 a month to run, I had to find a random roommate online. luckily everything has gone well. Part of me does regret moving here with the COL tho

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0v239g wrote

Could you have moved anywhere else tho? Seems like there’re limited options in New England

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snuffleog t1_j0v3i33 wrote

I moved here for a job I was really interested in. I wanted to stay in NH for the income tax and stay close to work. I have a dog which made things more difficult but as a renter outside of portsmouth/dover there arent many options unless youre looking in manchester( which is still very expensive) so given the lack of rentals i was somewhat forced into where i am. I feel like thats a common theme in the area and is why rentals are so expensive. More people want to live here than what the housing can accomidate. Great sign for homeowners, not great as renters.

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Jpf123 OP t1_j0va3dk wrote

> Great sign for homeowners, not great as renters.

You got that right :-/

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Adventurenauts t1_j0yxvz2 wrote

It feels cozy because its walkable, it's alive, it's a space that was built for humans. Something that is pretty rare in our region.

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ForklkftJones t1_j0ndgh8 wrote

They won't be happy until regular/average people, who don't want crazy housing debt, start burning things down.

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Darrenanity t1_j0rncea wrote

I never understood this point of view…I worked in Boston for 10 years and not once did I have a Boston zip code. I would have loved to live closer to work, but I couldn’t afford it. It wasn’t the fault of the people that lived there that I couldn’t live where I wanted to.

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Adventurenauts t1_j0yy7k5 wrote

There are literally laws necessary to maintain that paradigm. It's not some free choice by all individuals. It's the result of laws that encourage sprawl and pushes workers further and further away from their place of employment.

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Darrenanity t1_j0zh90i wrote

The only law needed is that of supply and demand. If the demand is greater than the supply, the price increases. Portsmouth is a small city with likely less than 13k dwellings available. The number of people that want to move here, either for work or just because it’s an amazing area, far exceeds its ability to house everyone. There has been a fair number of units added over the past couple of years, but land and building costs are very high. If it costs a developer $50m to create 50 units, you can trust those units are not selling for less than $1m each and if they decide to rent them, you can’t expect a $1m property to rent for $1500 a month - which doesn’t help get those people that want to move here but can’t afford to. There has been a few developments for workplace housing and smaller units, but it doesn’t begin to cover the number of people that want to live in Portsmouth. I’d love an ocean front property (or even a Little Harbor one), but I don’t have one because I can’t afford it. I don’t hate the system because someone else is doing better or their family has more money. Nor do I make threats about burning things to the ground because I think the system is broken. I do what I can to make my situation better and live within my means. I had a long commute for years, because that’s what I had to do. I wasn’t entitled to a downtown Boston property just because I worked there as much as I wanted one at the time.

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Adventurenauts t1_j0zs837 wrote

Zoning has restricted supply to the point where MOST people cannot afford to be a part of our community. It's not freedom when people can't access resources in an area. Unless you want to put a specific income on participating in society fine, I don't. Everybody deserves to be housed in their community : )

Just because your life, commute and housing were far and terrible doesn't mean that has to be the legal mandate for everybody.

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mmirate t1_j0o65d5 wrote

Fascinating. Where exactly might these "things" be located?

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_ced15 t1_j0ofo0k wrote

Yes

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mmirate t1_j0ny97m wrote

If you live in Portsmouth because you work in Portsmouth, then you're pouring money down the drain.
This is very simple economics and I am exasperated that you people refuse to grasp it.

To wit:

The best place to put most types of businesses that use human labor to manufacture things is near as many prospective employees as possible; i.e. in a centralized location. The best place to put a business that provides sales and/or service to visiting customers, is near as many prospective customers as possible; i.e. in a centralized high-density location.

Therefore, centralized high-density locations (i.e. cities and large towns) are extremely valuable for retail, industrial and other commercial uses.

The status quo is that zoning, parking minimums and other such local corruption, all but prohibit building any more apartments atop (e.g.) retail buildings. Therefore using any land in a centralized high-density location for residential purpose, excludes that land from extremely valuable retail or industrial use for which developers will likely pay very handsomely. The only reason the owner of such land would not want to sell to said developers, is if she can find some way to convince some residents to rent from her at an exorbitant price.

I imagine there are some people willing to pay that price; otherwise Portsmouth's population would be zero.

For the rest of us who want to earn a profit from life, the best place to put our residence is in a location which is as decentralized and low-density as possible, within a certain commute distance of one or more large towns whose employers can compete for our services.

(And yes, automobiles are the only way to extend commute distance such that multiple large towns are reachable from the same corner of bumfsck nowhere. Deal with it.)

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bananacherrypeanuts t1_j0nzu1a wrote

this is a really patronizing response. they’re not asking why portsmouth is expensive, they’re asking where people who work in portsmouth actually live specifically because portsmouth is expensive. if you know what the “low density locations” are, the smaller towns surrounding the area, then say so. if not, then this isn’t helpful at all.

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mmirate t1_j0o5vfw wrote

If somebody can't be bothered to say what he actually means (let alone mean what he says) then I can't be bothered to not patronize and condescend him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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bananacherrypeanuts t1_j0oi5sz wrote

my guy it literally says “Where do most of the people in Portsmouth live?” like that’s in the post

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mmirate t1_j0ph6ys wrote

It says "Do the people who work in Portsmouth live in Portsmouth?".

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Worried_Routine_5944 t1_j0nzvpr wrote

You’ve got some good points, but good lord no one will want to read them after that preamble.

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mmirate t1_j0o5yn0 wrote

If your ego's too big to fit through the garage door, then that's your problem, not mine.

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Ok-Glass7272 t1_j0pbxsa wrote

>Deal with it.

As far as I can tell, Portsmouth is trying to deal with it. The mayor is a staunch affordable housing proponent and, while politicians can only encourage and support legislation that encourages such change, he certainly seems to focus efforts on the problem. Portsmouth did recently open the Ruth Lewin Griffin workforce housing project, which boasts 64 below market rental units in the downtown and created a Housing Committee whose edict is to address the lack of affordable housing in the community. Further, town staff and board members are encouraging the creation of ADUs, which could have a positive effect on affordability in the city.

Just sayin'.

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Maldonian t1_j0vrpi1 wrote

True affordable housing, or taxpayer subsidized housing? Sometimes subsidized housing is disguised with euphemisms.

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5nd t1_j0o0t0v wrote

Great response.

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