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BeltfedOne t1_jaaezew wrote

So don't move the waste to properly permitted and regulated disposal sites and just leave in East Pallestine? WTF?

35

ILikeTalkn2Myself OP t1_jaaf3z7 wrote

>Officials with the Environmental Protection Agency previously said they have approved the shipment of contaminated waste to two EPA-certified sites in Ohio: Heritage Thermal Services in East Liverpool and Vickery Environmental in Vickery. Region 5 Administrator Debra Shore said Monday two more sites – one in Ohio and one in Indiana – will also receive waste from the derailment scene.
>
>The move came after officials in Texas and Michigan complained they didn’t get any warning that waste from the toxic crash site would be shipped to their states for disposal. The EPA ordered the train’s operator, Norfolk Southern, to stop the shipments Friday so that it could review the company’s disposal plans.

LOL... seriously. So, their genius plan was to spread the toxic waste across the United States. Wonderful.

Edit - let's keep track of where Norfolk Southern sends the toxic waste from their Ohio train wreck site. So far it has been public reported that at least 3 sites in OH, 1 in IN, 1 in TX and 1 in MI have been sent waste (knowingly and unknowingly):

  • Ohio
    • East Liverpool, OH
    • Vickery, OH
    • Unclosed location in OH
  • Indiana
    • Unclosed location in IN
  • Texas
    • Harris, TX
  • Michigan
    • Belleville, MI
121

MajesticOuting t1_jaag5wr wrote

So what happens when one of these shipments derail? because apparently this happens all the time.

23

Cold-Reflectionz t1_jaag6sg wrote

I hope its the front doorstep of 1200 Peachtree St NE, Atlanta, GA, with the rest of the garbage.

165

neridqe00 t1_jaalw76 wrote

Replying to MajesticOuting (#2,082,206)

From 1990 to 2021 there were an average of 1,705 train derailments per year, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Transportation Statistics and Federal Railroad Administration. Which is like 4 to 5 a day.

That counts as "happens all the time" in my book.

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BeltfedOne t1_jaam1vi wrote

Replying to zeussays (#2,083,323)

Especially when all Hazardous Waste shipments are tracked by the USEPA via their eManifest system. And all of the facilities are permitted on a federal, state, and local level. Pure noise and disinformation.

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xGenocidest t1_jaan30m wrote

Hm.. what are the odds they ship the contaminated stuff in another train, and it derails again?

8

cantproveidid t1_jaaoa1n wrote

That should be easy. Identify all stockholders, the board and executive officers. Divide the amount of waste by that number, deliver the wasted to each of the above's homes.

214

Geoarbitrage t1_jaaqgm8 wrote

Apparently it’s going to Vickery and East Liverpool…two other Ohio towns which I’m sure are thrilled to be getting it!

4

pkinetics t1_jaav38o wrote

Replying to zeussays (#2,083,323)

they are complaining because they are just now realizing that hazardous waste disposal already exists in their back yard. They just ignored and forgot about it until it made the news.

15

DerekB52 t1_jaawp4x wrote

Replying to neridqe00 (#2,083,891)

The only problem with this is, it counts something as severe as this ohio incident, the same as it counts an issue that ended up being very minor. A lot of those daily derailments are really non-issues.

15

CaptainJackVernaise t1_jaax20u wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,085,882)

Without prior knowledge? The sites this is being sent to are fully licensed to handle the waste they're being shipped. They signed up to receive this stuff, and in order for it to be shipped, someone at the site needed to give them an affirmative. The TCEQ had to approve the application to be a hazardous waste disposal site. These are private companies being paid to perform a service. All waste shipments should be following all EPA RCRA and OSHA HAZWOPER requirements.

Any arguments from people that say this stuff is being sent surely don't want the government to step in and interfere with a capitalist enterprise, right?

9

BabySnark317537 t1_jaax2n6 wrote

Replying to Cold-Reflectionz (#2,082,215)

So the agency that is trying to help should be the one to suffer? What about the politicians who have been bought by the railroads? What about the greedy railroad company? What about the people who voted for deregulation? Oh wait...

42

BabySnark317537 t1_jaaxb8h wrote

Replying to ILikeTalkn2Myself (#2,081,855)

What do you think happens to hazardous waste? It is placed into regulated approved landfills. These places are happy to take people's money to put hazardous waste there. Maybe you should try talking to the people who allowed a hazardous waste landfill in their county?

109

Redtex t1_jaayqt0 wrote

What the gov should is force them to get a 1000 year lease somewhere remote and "safe" in state, have them dump it there and have them take care of it under strict supervision with spot checks and fines for any future harm to anyone or the environment for that time. Maybe they'll be more care in the future if they have a long term penalty possibility for cutting corners.

−5

docmedic t1_jaaysam wrote

Replying to BabySnark317537 (#2,087,295)

It’s probably all going according to waste disposal protocols, but the fact that the EPA had to stop and review the plans… like, is that not part of the protocol, and they just did it because it’s optics?

Can the EPA quit it with the optics? We don’t need the head to nervously pretend to sip water or for the agency to pretend to order people around.

29

substituted_pinions t1_jaazysm wrote

They’re taking it outside the environment. Hopefully the front stays on next time.

22

BabySnark317537 t1_jab14uh wrote

Replying to docmedic (#2,087,727)

The state and the railroads have always been allowed to do what they want and the EPA as an agency barely has any teeth. Because of the public outcry the EPA has been allowed to tell the railroad no. And turns out Texas and Michagan didn't feel like taking the usual waste. Which means the EPA *gets * to review the plans before they are enacted. They weren't allowed before. This is real progress which is just as sad as the deregulation that led to this horrible situation.

48

AnUnderratedComment t1_jab26up wrote

Replying to ILikeTalkn2Myself (#2,081,855)

Dude you don’t seem to understand how this works.

The way the initial response was handled was wrong, and so wrong it’ll likely be deemed criminal. We all agree on that.

But the contaminated soil disposal seems to be working appropriately.

There are sites across the country that receive hazardous waste. That’s their entire business. Cleaning dirty dirt. Most sites will only accept dirt that had certain contaminants, because that’s what they specialize in processing. Often, that means contaminated dirt is moved across state lines for treatment. It is absolutely not normal for states to be alerted when this happens. It’s literally just regular old interstate commerce. Are states alerted every time a tanker truck with hazardous cargo enters their borders? Of course not.

This is already a big deal. Let’s not blow it up by mixing in conspiracy theories and misleading information. It takes away from the seriousness of the situation.

42

CharToll t1_jab4sg2 wrote

Norfolk Southern should be responsible for every penny spent on nationwide cleanup.

91

asstyrant t1_jabbmg0 wrote

I hear they store things at Mar-a-Lago.

23

kslusherplantman t1_jabdnoe wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#2,090,117)

The article literally says it’s going to two sites, one in Indiana and one in Ohio. Previously they were sending it to Michigan and Texas, but both states complained. So now Ohio and Indiana.

Not sure where you pulled out Florida?!?

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10thDoctorHairGel t1_jabj6xy wrote

There’s higher standards applied to where the stuff is shipped than to how it got there.

182

Herbandtea t1_jaboht0 wrote

How about Mar a Lago, I mean, all this would not have happened without the Agent Orange's deregulation...

5

webster8347 t1_jabq2tb wrote

The Mafia normally takes care of that and dumps it into the ocean.

0

Arrow_Artemis t1_jabr163 wrote

It's about time. Be concerned where it's going, where it has been going, what will they do with it when they get there, how long does it stay there, Does it stay there, how long will it be there, how much more will accumulate in one year's time, 5 years time, 10 years time? Why do we create this product in the first place, why can't we find alternative ways, why do we continue to risk ourselves and the environment by constantly poisoning it , ourselves and wonder why new diseases and Cancers etc exist? Why don't we realize that it's everybody's backyard, no matter where we put it? It might be 30 miles from your house but in a few years it'll be 10 mi from your kid's house and one mile from your grandkids future house. We got to get proactive and stop waiting for disasters to happen before we ask yourselves vital questions instead of worrying about the next PS5 Black Friday sale, or how many likes for tick tock challenge, or free crap because you think you're an influencer. Or like some others who sit around and watch The boob tube all damn day, morning News evening news, drama and crime shows, emotionally involved in pretend characters but completely oblivious of what's going out on next door. Just mentally and emotionally exhausting. To be raised to recycle and save the whales and decades later corporate companies finally gave in just to market GREEN and it just got worse. We know the solutions, it takes work and lots of change. And I'm not sure if that's in the American vocabulary anymore. It can be, but even the best of us distract ourselves on a daily because we feel alone in the fight. Power in numbers my friends.🕊️

0

macross1984 t1_jabvssw wrote

NIMBY.

Also, send some to Trump and other politicians who allowed railroad companies to not be punished for cutting corner in matntenance.

2

MurderDoneRight t1_jabwvtk wrote

Maybe they can put it in Garfield Heights, Ohio. They built a landfill in the 1970s where they dumped toxic waste, closed it up years later without cleaning it up, a developer bought it and put a mall on top of it, the ground started sinking as gases escaped from the soil, most of the businesses left, it was reworked as a business park and is still open to this day.

Did I mention the reason why they figured out the dump were toxic? Because a staggering amount of people were developing tumors. People still live there. Shit is still messed up 50 years on and everything is business as usual.

17

Pimpwerx t1_jac1iqe wrote

Why the concern? The free market will sort this out, as it always has. The government shouldn't be meddling in the affairs of a free society...or something equally comical spewed by conservatives prior to every fucking disaster.

21

CondimentBogart t1_jac54z8 wrote

This planet is a closed system. There is no easy answer.

1

richincleve t1_jac7xrm wrote

Funny. East Liverpool is like almost literally down the street from East Palestine.

Just a way for NS to save a few bucks on transportation costs.

2

doommaster t1_jac8jg7 wrote

Replying to docmedic (#2,087,727)

the fact that the EPA told people "it was safe to return to their homes" was sooo crazy to me as an outside observer... damn America is fucked.

The fact alone, that these companies are allowed to transport reactive chemicals, that interact with another in really harmful ways, all on the same train, is crazy to me.
That's like telling people to use acid and chlorine cleaner right after the other...

3

zurn0 t1_jacange wrote

Replying to Pimpwerx (#2,097,705)

Do you still believe in the tooth fairy too? The free market won’t do shit, way too many people are not directly effected by this for anything to happen. Just like how Exxon and BP are doing just fine after having major oil spills in the past.

Edit: obviously I failed to read the last part of their sarcastic comment. Insert first half meme here.

−14

Mynunubears t1_jacc7tk wrote

Should be Norfolk doing the cleanup, supervised by the EPA and any other entity that regulates these environmental disasters. And, Norfolk should have to be responsible for the processing and eliminating the contaminated waste.

3

Gundamamam t1_jacfelx wrote

Replying to docmedic (#2,087,727)

Like Michigan's governor getting upset that the waste was being sent to a toxic waste processing facility in michigan. Like, thats what its for. Is the governor going to try and block any other out of state businesses from using that waste disposal company or only the Norfolk Southern spill because its in the news?

4

kjbaran t1_jached2 wrote

As the temps rise, woodland folk retreat to the streams with their beer and children only to find dead crawfish and oily water.

3

Flycaster33 t1_jackgnw wrote

And just wait for the first rains/snow to pull all the contaminants down and percolate into the ground water.....not going to be good.....

3

somereallyfungi t1_jaclxsf wrote

Replying to cantproveidid (#2,084,586)

The board and c-suite, sure. But going after stock holders is a pretty futile idea as blame is so distributed. Norfolk Southern is an almost incomprehensible large company, in terms of ownership. The single largest shareholder is the mutual fund Vantage (in turn owned by some 30 million private investors) and they only hold about 8% of Norfolk.

3

TakeTheWheelTV t1_jacqkos wrote

Norfolk Southern’s train wreck site. Not Ohio’s

2

somereallyfungi t1_jacrm30 wrote

Replying to HandsyBread (#2,105,014)

There is a silver lining to this distribution, though. Norfolk could be driven to bankruptcy without a significant hit to most portfolios. Unfortunately, this doesn't actually solve the problem at hand. But, the punishment could be so severe as to actually be a deterrent for cost cutting.

2

HandsyBread t1_jactqpm wrote

Replying to somereallyfungi (#2,105,523)

This accident will not bankrupt Norfolk, let’s assume they had to purchase in full every single house (which won’t happen) you would be looking at $250M-1B at most, and then let’s say the total clean up cost was $1-2B. And let’s add another $500M-1B for other misc legal fees, damages, political bribes, etc. the total damage your looking at is $2-3B maybe $4B if they are able to squeeze them for every possible thing and the courts slap on additional fines. Heck even if they needed to give $1M per person to cover life long health costs, and other personal damages that would tack on other $4-5B at most.

That would just mean that they would take a loss of profits for 1-2 years. This won’t bankrupt the company or get close to bankrupting the company. And that outcome is likely to never happen, we would never see a company held responsible to this degree, but even if we did they would still be fine in the long run.

6

TrainOfThought6 t1_jacuwfn wrote

I mean, what the hell did these people expect when they allowed EPA waste disposal sites in their county? Are they usually notified about every single rail car going there?

7

Repubs_suck t1_jacvb0x wrote

Geez, want it cleaned up or not? Haz waste worse than this is traveling by truck every day. Got to be hauled away somehow.

3

cryptoanarchy t1_jad17ux wrote

Replying to somereallyfungi (#2,103,504)

A crash of the soil would be much different that the chemicals themselves. A much lower level problem. Getting all the soil is not too hard, getting liquid chemicals that just go straight down in the ground is much harder.

31

chookatee2019 t1_jad8ofe wrote

Probably going to an even-more-red state that allows them to just dump it wherever they want. Free market fixes itself! /s

8

Squire_II t1_jadbf54 wrote

Replying to HandsyBread (#2,106,227)

> That would just mean that they would take a loss of profits for 1-2 years.

5 billion isn't even a year of profit. They're spending more than that on stock buybacks and shareholder dividends this year.

10

M142Man t1_jadcj43 wrote

For a start it isn't going deeper into the soil and into the creeks nearby.

You can't scream "DO SOMETHING!" then complain when something is actually getting done.

0

17times2 t1_jadzc51 wrote

Replying to Skellum (#2,093,341)

> Atlanta and GA have directly contributed to the US becoming a better nation than it was.

So no company based in Atlanta needs to be held responsible for what they do? That must be nice.

2