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zxcvb94105 t1_itoatr2 wrote

Altered headline.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/11/palestinian-fighters-kill-israeli-soldier-in-occupied-west-bank

IDF engagement is tied to the murder of an Israeli soldier.

The situation is unfortunate and tragic for the lives lost. We do need to ensure that folks are aware of the actions leading up to the article - in this case, a terror group shooting and killing Israeli soldiers.

The WB was rejected by Jordan post 1967 and Abbas and Arafat rejected peace back to the 1967 borders. The Arab world refused peaceful coexistence and continues to do so. While Israel has peace with Egypt and Jordan, along with normalizing relations with other Arab nations, the militant organizations in Hamas, Fatah, MB and their support in Iran and Syria are too interested in their selfish interests. The people of the WB deserve better than Abbas funneling money to a Swiss account.

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zxcvb94105 t1_itosiwb wrote

Replying to CleftAsunder (#213,949)

Palestine was never a nation. Jews and Arabs both lived in the Ottoman Empire region known as Palestine. There is no occupation against the pre 1967 borders.

What’s worse about this protracted claim is that it ignores that the WB was Jordan, Gaza was Egypt and hundreds of thousands of Jews were evicted, raped, murdered and stolen from in many Arab nations with no continued discussion of return. The same happened to Greeks, Turks and other peoples.

The world has moved on save the WB and Gaza Arabs. Egypt even joins Israel in the blockade agains Hamas. Fellow Sunnis. And Israel has repeatedly offered land for peace.

Instead the PLO, PA, MB, Hamas and Fatah (of a few political and/or terror groups) continues to push for genocide or eviction where the world moved on. The people have suffered while Abbas and Hamas pour money into Swiss accounts and Gaza is used as a human shield in poverty.

As to the current borders - Gaza saw all Israelis unilaterally leave in 2005. It could have been a new nation. For the WB, Arafat rejected peace as the loser of the 1967 war, yet he was given virtually everything desired except EJ. And now? Israel is stuck - the settlements are wrong, but Israel can’t unilaterally leave as Iran, Syria and Russia would likely create an internal conflict of Sunni vs Shia. Whatever remained would be hostile to Israel and a blockade would be impossible. Jordan doesn’t want the WB back.

Israel sees more animus from the UN and others in blatant bigotry. While far from perfect, it is the only nation that tries to protect enemy lives, warning before targeted strikes on Hamas, for example. Other combatants would carpet bomb and the world would move on in a few years; Israel has worked for peace for decades even after four multinational wars.

It is obtuse to claim Israel is occupier. It isn’t historically accurate and it ignores that Jews and Israel were there first. Selecting a preferential arbitrary point in time is disingenuous.

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zxcvb94105 t1_itovdns wrote

Replying to TraditionalGap1 (#214,391)

One example. 4,600+ Hamas rockets targeting Israeli civilians in the dead of night for a week. Without a strong defense, and interest in defending versus offensive obliteration, tens-of-thousands of Israel’s Jews and Arabs would have been killed.

Enough said.

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LouPoh t1_itowcwh wrote

Iran locks up and kills its "enemies" in mockup trials. Isreal sends the military to kill them at home at night.

What do you think is worse?

−22

ATNinja t1_itp0dh9 wrote

Replying to TraditionalGap1 (#214,391)

I would say it isn't. But a terrorist organization can attack military targets and still be a terrorist organization for their terrorist attacks.

This organization is only a couple months old but has carried out attacks targeting civilians. So they're terrorists.

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LouPoh t1_itpcr1k wrote

Replying to Anonymoustard (#215,306)

Ok... but WHAT IF it was?

What do you think is worse?

Who wins this competition of "most evil fucked up opression by a goverment"?

Me personally I also have a hard time deciding.. and to be honest... both are pretty convincing in this category.

−10

Thokaz t1_itpllp4 wrote

Replying to zxcvb94105 (#212,770)

>The people of the WB deserve better than Abbas funneling money to a Swiss account.

Then why does Mossad make sure that those in power, stay in power? Why does Mossad beg its neighbors to keep sending rockets and money to Palestine?

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Sayonee99 t1_itqfbo5 wrote

Israel being Israel. Nothing new, sadly.

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LongShoeLace t1_itr33bf wrote

dude forgot the to add "terrorists" after Palestinians but it's ok. Israel bad, Palestinians good

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randymontana t1_itry6ov wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#221,352)

Per this article in the 6 years prior (2015-2021) 10,000 children have died in Yemen due to the conflict, also fueled by American support of Saudi Arabia.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/19/unicef-10000-children-killed-or-injured-in-yemen

Per this Wikipedia page, since 2012 (10 years) a total of 850 children have been killed in Palestine, and that includes deaths from Palestinian militants, not just IDF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict

You're uh, wrong as fuck or at least willfully misrepresenting data.

Based on the social media presence of this issue, Arabs only seem to care about Arab children dying when its being done by Jews. While I agree with the pro-palestine movement, it seems to be rife with antisemitism and bad-faith actors like yourself that will prevent it from ever becoming mainstream.

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Longwalk4AShortdrink t1_its1zmn wrote

Replying to Sayonee99 (#220,552)

Youre right, they're very good at killing murderers that like to make human shields out of civilian centers like Nalbus. Its sad that Israel has to keep doing this. Meanwhile, the PA is continuing to protect terrorist groups in their own backyard.

3

[deleted] t1_its25s7 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#221,352)

I heard you ate a baby last night so I say you're worse. I have a signed paper that says you did so in plain view in front of 50 witnesses

Prove me wrong or prove your statement correct

you can't do either

7

Sayonee99 t1_itsb3bg wrote

Replying to Longwalk4AShortdrink (#228,187)

Bruuhhhh this subject has been discussed and ignored by bigger people than us. Go out and get laid or something to put your mind at ease. Big Daddy USA won't let Israel down so relax, your favorite country isn't going anywhere.

−1

Longwalk4AShortdrink t1_itscpc5 wrote

Replying to Sayonee99 (#228,241)

I'm not worried about Israel going anywhere. My concern is more towards you being against Jews having a place to call home.

Unless you didn't actually mean zionism and want to rephrase your earlier comment

4

Sayonee99 t1_itsf1mc wrote

Replying to Longwalk4AShortdrink (#228,564)

>What do you have against the Jewish people having a homeland (zionism)?

Jewish people are lovely people and just as innocent as any other innocent human being. Why give them a homeland? What for? They came from europe when escaping the nazis, now thr nazis are gone. Why cant they go back?

Why do you support a nation state? Why only jews? Because you're one? Why are jews put above everyone else? Why do american tax payers have to literally fund a nation state?

Im about done with your stupidity and ignorance. May the jews of the world be safe along with all other innocent people from all backgrounds (even palestinian worshippers in aqsa mosque who are regularly targetted by the idf for praying...).

If zionism means the killing of innocent palestinians, then fuck zionism. If jews and Palestinians (muslims and Christians) can get equal rights and live peacefully, then im all for it.

−1

Longwalk4AShortdrink t1_itsh19o wrote

Replying to Sayonee99 (#228,737)

> Why give them a homeland? What for?

Centuries of hate, bigotry and/or genocide towards the Jewish people from most countries. The Holocaust, the Gentlemens agreements, the Iranian Revolution, the Pogroms, the Muslim World Exile, the Spanish Inquisition... I feel like that's plenty of reasons.

> They came from europe when escaping the nazis, now thr nazis are gone. Why cant they go back?

Jews are originally from the Middle East. Also what's to stop something like the Nazis from coming back? Germany was a modern, tolerant country for Jews right up until it wasn't.

> Why do you support a nation state?

Because that's what most of the planet looks like

> Why only jews? Because you are one?

My being jewish doesnt mean i only care about jews. Careful, that was almost a strawman fallacy.

> Why are jews put above everyone else?

They aren't, I dont know where you're getting that from.

> Why do american tax payers have to literally fund a nation state?

Sounds like a question for your politician

> even palestinian worshippers in aqsa mosque who are regularly targetted by the idf for praying

For praying? Yeah gunna need a source for that

> If zionism means the killing of innocent palestinians, then fuck zionism.

Not what zionism means, here's the definition since you seem to be struggling: zionism

Ultimately it seems that you're not against Jews having a homeland (great! So you're not anti-zionist). You seem more upset at the consequences of zionism being applied in a specific case to a specific region. Very different. Like you hating oil stains, not oily foods

1

Longwalk4AShortdrink t1_itslus9 wrote

Replying to Sayonee99 (#229,483)

Lol that's what sent you over the edge? Nazis still exist in most Western countries, especially in Europe and North America. You know that right?

So if they still CURRENTLY exist, what's to prevent something like Nazi Germany again? Hungary, North Korea, Myanmar and Iran are running a lot of parallels to the policy of 1930s-1940s Germany

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