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theappleogist t1_isn8dor wrote

Fuck Erdogan. Restore the Hagia Sophia as a secular museum.

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gender_nihilism t1_isnahq3 wrote

fuck erdogan. stop supporting and also actively committing genocide in the region.

not to be rude, but I feel like that's the thing to mention.

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Bisping t1_isndxqb wrote

Kick Turkey out of NATO, i wouldnt mind.

−20

[deleted] OP t1_isnfuze wrote

[removed]

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IceColdPorkSoda t1_isnmxwe wrote

Correct. Turkey is a key ally. It’s not like NATO admits new member all the time. Sweden and Finland are important additions to the alliance. Once Ukraine is in, then the rest of nato is free to extract concessions from Turkey whenever the occasion arises.

Edit: I deem it unlikely erdogan survives their currency crisis anyways.

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Flashy_Pomegranate23 t1_iso1dwi wrote

I don't think you realize how dumb that sounds. Do some research and see how important they are for NATO.

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atomicxblue t1_istgqn3 wrote

I dunno. It's easier to go for a Religious Victory if you have it. Don't knock that extra faith generation per turn.

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confusion13 t1_isnjrzl wrote

It was a mosque and turned into a secular museum only in 1935 by a dictator though. Would you also suggest that entire vatican city should be turned into some kind of secular museum?

−49

notlikeyourex t1_isnkh5r wrote

> Would you also suggest that entire vatican city should be turned into some kind of secular museum?

I would 100% support that.

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Cthulhu321 t1_isnkjlg wrote

You're comparing apples to oranges, it had been a orthodox Christian church for a long time until the fall of Constantinople. It being turned into a museum was a sort of compromise

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confusion13 t1_isnl92n wrote

>until the fall of Constantinople

It converted into a mosque in 1453 and remained as a mosque for five hundreds of years, which I would call a quite long time.

Also it was turned into a museum as part of laicité policies, not as a "compromise" between Christians and Muslims. It's also noteworthy that Muslims accounted for 98.32% of population in 1935.

−19

d01100100 t1_isonvev wrote

> It's also noteworthy that Muslims accounted for 98.32% of population in 1935

It's also noteworthy that Atatürk's reforms stressed secularization.

It's literally codified in the 1924 constitution, and reaffirmed in both the 1961 and 1982 post-Coup revised constitutions.

> The Constitution asserts that Turkey is a secular (2.1) and democratic (2.1) republic (1.1) that derives its sovereignty (6.1) from the people.

It was a cathedral for over a millennia, so if your argument is purely about time, then they both have first dibs and longer duration.

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Odd-Employment2517 t1_isnzemz wrote

Ataturk was duly elected as president he was no dictator with an elected parliament giving him his power. They held all positions of power though that was largely because there would've been no Turkey today if not for Ataturks post ww1 campaign freeing Turkey from European occupation

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Mimehunter t1_isnwuca wrote

>Would you also suggest that entire vatican city should be turned into some kind of secular museum?

You're asking that on reddit...

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TronOld_Dumps t1_isn4ce6 wrote

Honestly turkey should have their voting status removed at this point. Kinda seem like the play all sides assholes that's got into NATO before a shit regime took over.

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blisstaker t1_isng3ri wrote

its fragile right now but turkey still seems to be for it, granted with some demands.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-14/sweden-s-new-cabinet-pledges-to-deliver-on-nato-deal-with-turkey

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Elocai t1_isqaqfr wrote

Thats just black mail, using NATO to profit sets a bad presidence. This means that every country joining will give Turkey/Hungary/... to use it to make deals.

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blisstaker t1_isqd9hm wrote

i don’t completely disagree with you but ill give sweden and finland the benefit of the doubt there…

future potential members, who knows

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Grogosh t1_isn7q9y wrote

Just change it so it doesn't need to be unanimous.

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Donut_of_Patriotism t1_isnv50t wrote

No. It’s a defensive alliance . No country should be forced to defend another they didn’t explicitly agree to defend. That being said, Turkey is being dicks about this whole thing.

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usrevenge t1_isnci6j wrote

You would think it would be sorta like the security council because NATO if you add USA France Germany and the UK you have most of the NATO forces right ?

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jebuswashere t1_isnlo29 wrote

Turkey has the largest military in NATO after the United States.

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usrevenge t1_isnmrc1 wrote

I think Ukraine is showing us it's about how well equipped and experienced the military are..not physical size.

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mjgoot t1_isno4wx wrote

russia has a huge military too

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Organic_Reputation_6 t1_isopmcm wrote

Largest yes , best equipped no, but the danger lies in the Turks living in Europe. Could cause social unrest

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OrdinaryNGamer t1_isnnr2u wrote

Yes turkey has big army but is most unstable country I ever seen being in nato, cough “2016” coup.

0

TronOld_Dumps t1_isn81l9 wrote

Right. Seems like that should never be the case where one person (country) can build the rest hostage.

−5

nagrom7 t1_isnf2m7 wrote

The issue is, every country basically has to agree that they would come to the defence of everyone else. If it was just something like a majority vote, you'd have instances of countries being forced to defend countries that they didn't agree to defending, which could result in the alliance falling apart in the outbreak of conflict.

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[deleted] OP t1_isnfy7g wrote

[deleted]

−6

Zedd2087 t1_isoums2 wrote

Currently Turkey has the second largest military in NATO so they probably provide more security than they receive.

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SekhWork t1_iso3bhs wrote

Am I crazy or is this an article about Hungary but every comment is about Turkey?

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Gabortusz t1_iso4400 wrote

Turkey is the only country left that doesn't rectify this vote.

Dictators gonna dictator and it kinda pisses people off.

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Fausterion18 t1_isqdk70 wrote

It has nothing to do with Erdogan being a dictator lol. If you put it to a popular referendum in turkey it's doubtful people would vote to expand NATO.

Turkey is trying to wring concessions out of NATO. Some are symbolic like Finland designating some groups as terrorists, some are material like getting the US to sell them F-16s.

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ianandris t1_iso4kng wrote

The article is about NATO membership for Finland and Sweden. Hungary is finally voting to allow membership. What Turkey doin?

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SummerLover69 t1_iso9z06 wrote

Turkey will come along. Let the diplomats do their job and it will happen. Nobody is going to attack either country at this point so we don’t need to overly worry.

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egonil t1_isoe3uu wrote

Maybe throw them an Istanbul Olympics 20XX to sweeten the pot, I'm sure the IOC would oblige with the right figure.

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SusannaG1 t1_ispi9yl wrote

The IOC will always oblige for the right figure.

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Organic_Reputation_6 t1_isood1p wrote

Turkey in nato is a disgrace , fake coup and imprisoning polical opponents a while ago ; supporting both Russia and Ukraine , extorting eu with refugees , illegally occupying part of Cyprus . As EU there’s only 1 thing to do, impose heavy taxes on flights to Turkey killing their tourism and abandoning double nationalities. Just show some teeth instead of being erdogans slave. Europe can destroy the Turkish economy so easily.

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Fausterion18 t1_isqdzqr wrote

>supporting both Russia and Ukraine

There is only one NATO country that has directly fought Russia lately, and it's Turkey when they smashed half the Syrian army alongside their Russian advisors.

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Wrong_Hombre t1_isqx6m0 wrote

Is uhhhh... Is this supposed to be impressive?

If so, highly weird flex, the Russian military has proven to be pure, unadulterated turbo-shit.

Also, the US military engaged Wagner (technically not Russian military, but yeah definitely Russian military) and Syrian regulars; the US group of like 100 dudes smashed 4-500 Wagner/Syrians got smashed to pieces and received 0 casualties.

−2

Fausterion18 t1_isqxr9n wrote

Did you miss the entire context?

He claimed Turkey supports Russia when Turkey literally fought a mini-war against Russia a couple years ago.

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Wrong_Hombre t1_isqy2w5 wrote

Have you been paying attention at all? He's stating that Turkey fought the Russian military and won, and implied this makes them a valuable partner.

Beating up the Russian military is slightly less impressive in 2022 than it was in 2021. The Russian military sucks shit.

−1

Fausterion18 t1_isrenpy wrote

>Have you been paying attention at all? He's stating that Turkey fought the Russian military and won, and implied this makes them a valuable partner.

Where in this entire quote do you see any thing of the sort?

> Turkey in nato is a disgrace , fake coup and imprisoning polical opponents a while ago ; supporting both Russia and Ukraine , extorting eu with refugees , illegally occupying part of Cyprus . As EU there’s only 1 thing to do, impose heavy taxes on flights to Turkey killing their tourism and abandoning double nationalities. Just show some teeth instead of being erdogans slave. Europe can destroy the Turkish economy so easily.

Quote specifically where he says Turkey fought Russia and won and this makes them a valuable partner.

>Beating up the Russian military is slightly less impressive in 2022 than it was in 2021. The Russian military sucks shit.

What the fuck are you even on about?

0

cgaWolf t1_istyp12 wrote

>Europe can destroy the Turkish economy so easily.

What for? Erdogan is doing a great job of that all by himself.

1