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Hard the wrap my head around all of this effort to cut off and sanction Russia only amounting to a 2% deficit. Isn’t the US deficit much much higher?

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That's what they are admitting to even with all their attempts at control and locking down markets.

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I don't think there is a violin small enough.

You can tell by all the mysterious deaths.

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If you had surplus and went to 2% deficit...it is a lot then.

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How long till the small folk rise up or the oligarchy supplies money for a war within Russia?

There are not enough hotels to deal with all small folk resisting to cough up

Those sanctions need to really sink their teeth in and start gnawing. This all needs to end.

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I guess it depends what you mean by much much.

U.S. budget deficit is historically less than 5% of GDP, though there have been recent spikes to 9.8% in 2009 after the Great Recession and over 15% in 2020 in reaction to the pandemic. 2022 saw 5.4% and current estimate for 2023 is 4.5%.

Source: https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_percent_gdp

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He has such small hands.

It will require help from the military/the ruling class to take over directly. We aren’t in a situation where a few people with some aks can just take over.

If you believe anything Russia ever says, you are part of the problem.

There's a good chance it's a lot worse than it seems due to their tight monetary control. There are millions of workers that aren't getting paid on time, wages nowhere near keeping up with prices, and russians didn't generally have much room in their economy to begin with, and there's many reports of millions struggling to put food on the table.

The russian populace has for centuries led a very downtrodden life, and are used to being oppressed, it's literally their way of life, only St. Petersburg and Moscow are more privileged, and Putin does all he can to keep them content, but if we see large scale protests in those 2, it's game over for Putin.

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It's really no surprise that sanctions are starting to have an impact on Russia's economy. This shows that economic sanctions are an effective way to make a statement and bring attention to a situation. It's a shame that Russia is feeling the impact of these sanctions, but it's important to remember the reason why these sanctions were put in place.

Just like his orange cousin

Haven't they been saying this since sanctions were first mentioned at the beginning of the war?

edit: downvote me all you want troops but the sanctions we've imposed so far have been half assed since they started their damn invasion and time and time again we've heard instances of places where sanctions could do the most damage have been rejected because we didn't want to pay the cost.

A mealy ass excuse

Russian history is unlike any other developed country. It's fascinating how much violence, and misery the working class/serfs/people/comrades have endured for generations. The expectation of the ruling class to respond with brutal oppression is pretty much in the DNA of the people. Russia never had a renaissance, it was pulled out of it's feudalism slooooowly and this was only started by Peter the Great. I've read about how peasants/lower class people formed clubs focused around withstanding pain/torture should you get arrested by a noble and sentenced to knouting...(I don't know how true this is but wow). The Russian ethos is pretty dark. I've had the honor of working with a lot of people of Russian diaspora that came to America after winning the green card lottery and after fall of communism. Don't mess with their tea, or their tea breaks.

Everyone hates Putin.

No matter who wins or loses, Russia has lost all credibility with the rest of the world.

The only way to fix this would be for the Russians to get rid of Putin.

And they're not gonna do it until things get really uncomfortable for Russians.

Anything that will make Russians more uncomfortable is good.

You can fully imagine the economic pressure of war and depopulation

The sanctions havent done squat since the start of the war

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The impacts?

“Starting to have an impact” means that sanctions AREN’T working. Here is a counterpoint article. Don’t get me wrong, the sanctions should stay in place and we should continue to squeeze Russia for their illegal war, their rampant war crimes, etc. But we are coming up on a year of them being isolated and they aren’t feeling any immediate effects. They will eventually see the effects because future industry will be hurt, plus the brain drain of so many escaping. But Russia has trained for this and is still able to produce and fight.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/12/06/1140120485/why-the-sanctions-against-russia-arent-working-yet

While I too hate Putin, not everyone does. Channel 5 ( All Gas No Brakes guy ) really opened my eyes to the amount of people that are idiotic enough to support this dickhole Putin.

I almost hate his supporters more than Putin himself because they don’t even know WHY they support him.

Sanctions have a terrible history. The idea is that we will squeeze the average citizen until they revolt.

The result: we push them closer to the dictator as nationalism fills the voids in their stomachs. They refuse to bow to the "money men" from whatever far away place demands they bend the knee.

Meanwhile, the elite are never going to starve.

It's the submit to authority narrative. They are drawn to it because it's familiar.

World's smallest balalaika.

My understanding is that the sanctions aren't meant to hurt the average citizen and push him to revolt, but to cripple the Russian government's ability to aquire material like microchips and components for weapons, which are working.

That the general population sufferes financially is just a side effect.

I think there's also an intent to hobble the war machine. Reduction in industry and commerce reduces tax income. Parts and materials for weapons, equipment, and supplies may be more difficult to source.

Just gonna drop this here: /r/FreedomofRussia/

When they hit the ground after falling out of a Window, those impacts you mean?

Or, like in the west, because he hurts 'the right people'.

Nah. Sanctions are like a slow working poison. At first nothing is felt, and when you start thinking everything is OK, the bite is being felt. By the time it really starts to hurt, it's nearly too late and almost irreversible.

Sanctions take a lot of time, but are very effective some time in, especially on a country that relies on raw exports and has to import almost anything else, including expertise.

Sanction make strong Russia. Vlad Pewtin.

You clearly didn’t read my article. It’s not that sanctions are a slow working poison. It is that Russia has prepared for this contingency and is able to withstand it in the short term.

They know why they support him, they just fear the repercussions for saying it out loud (it's fascism).

so like, when do people go postal?

I feel for the people, especially the children, who Putin and his ilk will allow to suffer in service to his ego. It’s genuinely a sad situation.

Let's keep an eye out for protests in St. Petersburg and Moscow, if we see mass protests there somethings going to happen....

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Sounds like the price cap is working.

So if you take the governments money, they will kill some billionaire and take their money and assets to make up the difference. However, they still put a lot of it in their own pocket so who knows how much that will help their country.

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See North Korea

If you believe anything any country says, I have some stock to sell you. And oh does it work. Every single time bar none. Oh and if you downvote, step up lol. Tell me who’s so trustworthy.

I’m pretty sure that’s what lampypete meant…

thing is getting rid of putin wont work. they have to change the whole management. if putin leaves someone similar ( medvedev )or even worse might come. they need to change their mindset to have an impact

Potatoe Famine about to start.......millions will be without food. They already dont have essentials so dont go there.

As much as the Russian history is filled with awful rulers, I have to admire the tenacity of the Russian people. Oppression after oppression and they still carry on and even manage to create incredible works of art despite their struggles. I truly hope they can throw off their shackles and build a successful and just government one day.

" Price caps on Russia’s crude and refined oil exports could force the Kremlin to cut output by between 5% and 7% next year "

I'm all for the sanctions but I don't understand this. Why wouldn't Russia increase exports to counter the lower price? It's not like any oil company is operating on a thin profit margin.

>The sanctions havent done squat since the start of the war

Jesus.....

I mean, I really don't understand how you people try making such ludicrous claims.

Like, we literally have the following break down you could try to read:

https://www.consilium.europa.eu /en/infographics/impact-sanctions-russian-economy/

There are two kinds of ignorance. Willful and unwilful. Which are you?

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Good. Now let's double down for the next 20 years, make absolutely sure they can never afford to start another war ever again.

Aren’t their stock market, especially their forex market, still closed? At this point, it’s just artificial currency control propping up the economy.

/r/woosh

Since the start of the war, all the Putinites are all over "but the ruble is the strongest it's ever been"

Then I say, please show me an FX trade you've made at that rate.

"wdym?"

Moscow doesn't even inform the bot farms of the whole picture. Can't risk have the rubes learning how to trade like the rich.

Yeah, it's so controlled it has no connection to reality.

They're running propaganda videos featuring workers whose wages are late. The message of the videos is to join the army to ensure a steady paycheck.

This is something I do feel sorry for normal people of Russia… Their future is ruined for decades atleast. No money will fix the trust broken this bad by Putin and his minions. The best case scenario for the people would be to ditch the current regime, try to set up a new, democratic system, and pray for forgiveness (and pay the rebuilding costs of Ukraine). Which is very unlikely, but no can do.

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Russia like a classic empire just abuses and expropriates the colonies they occupy. There is nothing to admire, Russia is a vile anachronism of the imperial past.

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That’s almost exactly what he said to you. The short term is coming to an end.

China keeps buying oil from the orcs and providing them with banking services. So that is easing the pain

Heck even their army can’t guarantee that.

Again, read my article. It’s from fucking NPR, this isn’t like I’m posting a celebratory article from the Russian state media.

Sanctions WERE SUPPOSED to have an immediate affect by crippling Russia’s GDP and leading to rampant inflation. The Russian economy has resisted the immediate expected and planned effects of the sanctions. So while there will be long term effects, the sanctions were put in place because they were SUPPOSED to have immediate effects. They have failed to do so.

I know that it’s inconvenient and uncomfortable to hear this news, but refusing to face the truth isn’t going to help anything.

When the vodka and bread runs out

Yeah, really cringy videos. So poorly made propaganda. But considering they don't have a righteous cause I suppose that's the best they can do.

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>Sanctions WERE SUPPOSED to have an immediate affect by crippling Russia’s GDP and leading to rampant inflation

According to who?

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Sanctions work slowly, always have, always will. Long term effects are what are expected, short term effects are merely a bonus.

Russia has well filled coffers, enough to prop up the Ruble for a while. As for inflation, russia has enough raw materials and food production to keep the country going for a while. As for anything that needs to be imported, scarcity will lead to price hikes, but for the population, those are mostly luxury goods (iphones, etc), for the industry however, irreplacable and hard to obtain.

But the primary reason is to thwart Russia's advanced weapons production, long term. And it seems it's working.

Again, no one expects sanctions to have an immediate effect, especially when the receiving end deploys countermeasures, like manipulation of the Rouble, halting stock trade etc, which is what's going on, but these efforts cost money and Russia won't be able to do this forever.

Have you ever been to Russia? The entire nation is riddled with the consequences of decades-long corruption and oppression. Their infrastructure is several (4-8) decades behind ours, depending on what sector of the economy and country you are looking at. It isn’t as easy as turning the taps more fully open.

There is a resins Russian jets downed in Ukraine were found with cheap commercial GPS units duct taped to their flight consoles.

/r/YourJokeButWorse

I was reading something yesterday saying that there are instances where automobile manufacturers are having to leave the airbags and anti-lock brake systems out of freshly produced vehicles due to trade sanctions because they can't get the necessary materials. Death by a thousand cuts it seems to be at the moment.

According to all of the parties that imposed the sanctions as well as their various advisors, lol. Primarily the US and the US Treasury. Seriously, not only did I link a completely unbiased article, but it even has links and sources. Again, at least PRETEND to consider the situation instead of blindly parading around and avoiding any inconvenient news.

Don't worry, they are. Both sides are working overtime to tighten and evade the sanctions. It's an ongoing thing and russia's conscripts aren't even fully equipped. They would be getting missiles and parts from a lot more places than just iran otherwise.

Iirc, they somewhat function but it's very difficult to sell russian securities, especially as a foreigner. And ruble forex trades are strictly controlled by the government. Yeah, it is artificial for appearances. They have to look strong in order to get Ukraine to surrender, and outlasting Ukraine is their only card except using nukes.

The things that normal humans have been doing in russia despite the despots are actually worth recognizing despite russia's evil past and present.

Russia is kind of where history comes to take a crap.

There is nothing special about that, every nation had creative people. Especially empires. Russian culture is not special in that regard. Who really deserve recognition are talented and brave artists in Russian colonies. Like Ukraine’s Taras Shevchenko, Lesia Ukrainka, Ivan Franko. Those are the artists who really braved and persevered in spite of all.

They won't rebel because of economics. Those poor will try to survive, those rich will try to save whatever they have left.

If people will ever rebel, it'll happen only when FSB and Police will be underfinanced and unable to crush and control the protest anymore.

Then there will be shy protesting, and when it'll be obvious for everyone that it's safe to protest, and when the state TV will fracture and propagandists themselves will call their audiences to protest, only then millions will come to join.

But not when it's risky.

You keep circling back to that fact the link you posted was from NPR instead of attempting to understand that sanctions work slowly, not immediately.

>Why wouldn't Russia increase exports to counter the lower price?

Because price caps are enforced via restrictions on how oil is transported (tankers) and insured. They can probably bypass the price cap by selling to countries they have pipelines to but that's limited to 1 or 2. And when those two customers are full, then what?

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CPG Grey posted a video a while back the boiled down the basics of being a ruler.

As a ruler, regardless of your country or position, you have three keys to power that exist to keep you around. Your people who collect revenue for you, your people that enforce your will domestically, and your people who enforce your will internationally. As a leader, its your job to distribute revenue to keep these keys serving you.

If any of them start to go hungry, or they think someone else will cut them a better deal, you're already dead.

Almost as bad as the ones showing European families freezing to death and eating their pets.

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In Soviet Russia, post office shoots you!

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Putin cracking open another piggy bank

Yeah, that didn't work out too well after WW1 with Germany. And we tried bankrupting Russia before (as the USSR). The fall of the soviet union was nice and all, but looks like the solution might not have stuck.

Tell that to the dead and displaced. They don’t care about the circle jerking Reddit and the media did almost a year ago when sanctions started.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/23/russian-sanctions-economy/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/24/us/politics/russia-ukraine-biden-sanctions.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/16/politics/russia-sanctions-ukraine-slow-economic-pain/index.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-01/us-wavers-over-next-russia-sanctions-as-fears-of-divide-grow?leadSource=uverify%20wall

And you keep ignoring the fact that everyone that imposed sanctions against Russia, Russian banks, and Russian officials did so strictly with the intent to cause immediate harm. And that the immediate harm did not occur anywhere to the extent that we hoped.

Bread won't run out because they literally stole most of Ukraine's wheat harvest. But vodka.... that could cause problems.

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No. It was to starve Russia without causing global economic collapse. Zelensky was and is still pissed that the world wasn’t/isn’t going far enough with sanctions that would have immediate consequences.

If you notice the article currently posted from today is saying that the economy is starting to tank you are posting from the past that say they aren’t doing as much damage as people want. Now there is evidence that the Russian economy is slowing.

I don’t believe that there hasn’t been serious damage to the Russian economy since the source of russian economic data is controlled by the Russian government.

Okay. Maybe. But... if sanctions "worked," then you would think there would be a measurable effect other than the poor people in Russia struggling more. It's a sad reality, but Russia is a sovereign nation, and they can do whatever they want inside their borders, and sanctions are the most we can do. Unfortunately, Putin could give two shits if his poor people become more poor. So yeah, I haven't seen sanctions ever "work." Other than simply making it appear that America is doing something.

Your claim of what the sanction was for is counter to what the US administration, the US Department of Treasury, and the US Department of State have all explicitly stated. And what all US allies that have also gone in on sanctioning Russia have stated. I’m inclined to believe them over you.

The various US officials are all frustrated because they enacted these sanctions based on the Intel and the forecasts that the Russian GDP would shrink significantly more than it has and that the Russian currency would experience much greater inflation than it has. Russia has unfortunately defied expectations and has been measurably successful in countering what the sanctions have attempted to do.

So? That sounds like UDSSR, that's what it was about and that's what they got, mission accomplished I would say

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You don't think the state sold it all to try to get more war material?

Russia needs to ban windows!

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TBF I wasn't talking about the average Russian in that comment. More the oligarchs that support Putin's war that is causing this in the first place.

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If nothing else, then think of them as "If you aren't going to be a team player on the world stage, then you should figure out how to exist without the rest of the world."

That's really all sanctions are. Sanctions don't "do" anything on their own except make the nation more self-reliant. Expecting national sanctions to specifically do something is silly. It's an important reminder that good behavior is important on the world stage, if you care to engage with the world. As for the sad reality of his people, yes, he's a terrorist using his own citizens as hostages.

The thing that America is actually "doing" is helping Ukraine defend itself.

(I had an additional metaphor in here but it had some flaws so edited it out)

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Pull До біса Путін Finger!

Thats clearly why Russia still has no t14s after the 2016 sanctions while the US just developed and is already sending to field testing our new tank. The sanctions from 2016 on are breaking Russia and u love to see it, they can't even make a tank they've been developing for 6+ years

Limited pity for anyone still in Russia, ill give them as much as North Koreans and say their system and life is terrible and it sucks they just put up with it

Again, look at ANY of the links that I posted. Specifically, the sanctions that have started to be put in place since the beginning of this year were done so in order to sink the Russian GDP and increase the ruble's inflation. When every single government and organization that has collectively led these sanctions has explicitly stated that they did so in order to decrease the Russian GDP by double what it has seen and attempt to cause double/triple the level of inflation that Russia has experienced, that's great that it's crippling Russia but if we can't be honest about the results we're experiencing through our actions, then we can't effictively fight these battles against Russia. There's no value in parading around with blinders on in celebration instead of admitting that our actions haven't had the expected results and going back to the drawing board.