Submitted by pstbo t3_10plwh1 in nottheonion
Comments
FlyAirLari t1_j6m4vns wrote
>"we can respect the lives of whales by appreciating their meat"
That's a great quote to keep in mind for a funeral of a beloved relative. Plus, you also solved what to serve at the reception.
Assfuck-McGriddle t1_j6n3dxi wrote
> So what's really behind resistance to the moratorium? From the Japanese perspective, banning whaling before banning the killing of other animals is a bit logically inconsistent. If your argument is about conservation, then bluefin tuna, a far more important part of the Japanese diet, is also far more endangered. (Minke whales, the species Japanese whalers hunt, aren't even close to endangered, though the IWC claims minke whale numbers have fallen in recent decades.)
So part of the argument lies in denying reality by making claims that differ with the IWC. We’re off to a great start here.
>If your argument is that hunting whales is cruel, so is factory farming. If your argument is that whales are smart, so are pigs. None of this amounts to a case for eating whales, of course, but the argument to single out whales for protection is not exactly airtight either.
Then another argument is a bullshit logical “gotcha.” ‘If you care so much about animal conservation, why doesn’t that extend to every possible animeal?!’ Sure, ignore the slippery slope fallacy and there’s probably at least one more in that bullshit line of reasoning as well.
>So “saving the whale” may be irrational, but so is saving the panda or the polar bear or any other cute mammal. Activism rides on symbolic actions. And just as the whale has become symbolic for environmental groups like Greenpeace, it has, in response, become symbolic for the Japanese, too. “The strong condemnation of whaling by the foreigners is taken as harassing the traditional values,” says Kobayashi. The Japanese government now heavily subsidizes whaling to the tune of $50 million a year.
And like you said, here’s the crux of the real argument for whaling: political, yes, but in reality, just simply financial. The government gives 50 million a year for people to go kill fucking whales. That’s all. No more, no less.
[deleted] t1_j6no62m wrote
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Assfuck-McGriddle t1_j6noiyc wrote
> What’s fallacious about this argument? You value one animals’ life over another.
Let me make sure I understand what you’re asking: If you don’t try and save every single animal’s life, it means you don’t care about that specific animal.
You’re asking why that statement is fallacious? Really?
> Unless you’re vegetarian or vegan, then saying you value a whales life over a pig or cow etc is simple personal double standard.
Holy bad-faith moly, Batman, there’s no way I’m going to approach this dumpster fire, lol. You’re welcome to believe what you want.
[deleted] t1_j6npv50 wrote
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Assfuck-McGriddle t1_j6nq0ha wrote
I gotcha man, it’s okay. I know full well nothing I say will convince you so you’re welcome to think this.
gadadhoon t1_j6o5s0t wrote
This has actually been the practice in a few human cultures
FlyAirLari t1_j6oal66 wrote
I can see that. You all loved him so much. Now, a small part of him will become you.
Northwindlowlander t1_j6n0uj0 wrote
The bizarre thing about the japanese whaling is, it loses money and there's no demand for it. Without subsidies, the industry would disappear pretty much overnight. So they use the false cultural argument and the laughable research argument in order to prop up an industry that makes no sense
HamburgerFromParis t1_j6odqo3 wrote
It makes sense for them to maintain that fishing as an attention focus, so the world doesn't mind some of their other dark fishing businesses (e.g. red tuna overfishing east of African coasts).
shaginvolkswag t1_j6nxmk7 wrote
It’s the only way they can say F you to the rest of the world lol
cowvin t1_j6lwf0l wrote
In case you're wondering why Japan keeps on killing whales for meat... It's mostly political, it seems:
https://www.wired.com/2015/12/japanese-barely-eat-whale-whaling-big-deal/
druffischnuffi t1_j6mkl9q wrote
It almost seems like every culture has one stupid thing they love and don't want to give up even though everyone knows it only causes harm.
I am thinking of things like guns in the US, speeding on highways in Germany, foie gras in France and apparently whaling in Japan
Potatoswatter t1_j6ob1pf wrote
Only one of those things occurs outside the country’s borders. Only one of those things risks irreversible damage to nature.
Mysticpoisen t1_j6ojik7 wrote
I think the push for coal in the US and Germany and China would have been a better example.
Not to defend Japan but it is worth noting that the populations and species of whales Japan hunts aren't in danger and their whaling doesn't appear to be impacting that species conservation significantly(their tuna fishing is a much bigger concern in that manner). But yeah, we all agreed to stop with that shit, get on board Japan it hasn't even been economical for decades.
Ok-Class6897 t1_j6m9bvi wrote
I'm Japanese and whale is delicious. It's delicious deep-fried. It used to be served at school lunches.
mmrrbbee t1_j6lid51 wrote
boo
ApatheticWithoutTheA t1_j6lwpeq wrote
Fuckkkka youuuu whaleeeeee! And fuckkkkka youuuuu Dolphin!!!!!
lostsurfer00 t1_j6l86ba wrote
Savages.
Ban-Circumcision-Now t1_j6lfem6 wrote
Some might say that about cows, or chickens or any fish from the sea
Whales seem like an odd place to draw a line
strangefruit3500 t1_j6m1vo7 wrote
Whales are much closer to being extinct than most any other domesticated animal. They also don't reproduce at the same rate. The argument not necessarily that its individual life is inherently more valuable than say a cow. But to the rest of its species it is comparatively more valuable.
As a thought experiment, imagine someone killing the last member of a species. Then when you criticize them, they point out you ate chicken so you're both equal. You'd think them a moron. This is a lesser version of my example
Gatherel t1_j6lafgg wrote
Why?
lostsurfer00 t1_j6lajz6 wrote
Killing whales to fill their trash vending machines.
Gatherel t1_j6lam5r wrote
I take it you only eat plants?
lostsurfer00 t1_j6laumn wrote
Of course not. We dont breed whales though in a way that gives us a crazy supply to chomp and enjoy. Use your brain you dummy.
Gatherel t1_j6lb1gx wrote
Do you breed deers or are people who hunt them also savages?
ApatheticWithoutTheA t1_j6lwva3 wrote
Deer are overpopulated and hunting licenses account for that 🤦♂️
Hence why you can only kill so many a year and tag them.
lostsurfer00 t1_j6lbfx5 wrote
I don't eat deer. Like me a good chicken or steak though. I'm all for sustaining healthy populations with hunting species that can cause issues to the ecosystem when the numbers get out of control. Hunting season is a great process for sustaining healthy population levels. Again, use your brain dummy.
Matt1050 t1_j6leo8u wrote
"I'm not ok with hunting animals unless we capture them and breed them incessantly to the point where a majority of their species lives in their own feces and stands shoulder to shoulder with its kin waiting until it's fat enough to die for us"
How in the fuck is hunting more cruel than industrial livestock? Would you rather be killed fleeing for your life out in the wild or you and your entire species be born into a prison filled with an inch deep of feces to wait to be eaten?
Your perspective is nonsensical and idiotic.
Edit: btw, if whales were bred in captivity as an industrial source of meat, you can guarantee breeders would artificially select traits effectively genetically engineering them into a new subspecies. There are almost no wild cows, dogs, or chickens anymore because they're near extinction levels. But that's better right?
ContemplatingPrison t1_j6lumym wrote
Being animals to kill them isn't any better. But whatever you need to do to justify the torment you cause living animals
Gatherel t1_j6lc40b wrote
See it’s easy to make a half assed argument when you don’t know anything. People all around the world eat different things for different reasons. In India a lot of people don’t eat beef because they consider it a sacred animal. There are vegans who don’t eat any animal products because they consider it cruelty. It’s easy to look at something you don’t understand or like and judge people for it without having any understanding on the topic. It’s hard to look at what others do and try to understand, and I get it, it’s a pain, but if you want to get out of your shell and understand the world a little better you can always do it. Here’s a recent video on eating dolphin meat if you feel comfortable dropping the name calling and doing something productive.
Edit: Also it could be argued that beef isn’t as sustainable as it is touted to be given the amount of methane gas they produce that isn’t managed. But hell, what do I know.
All that being said, I love all kinds of food, but you’ll never get me to eat bugs.
RuadhriO t1_j6lwh8n wrote
I think that there's a huge difference between not eating meat or certain animals and eating an endangered species with an increasingly diminishing population due to hunting that is illegal to kill and sell in most of the rest of the world.
lostsurfer00 t1_j6lcmmr wrote
I can have an opinion online and so can you. If somone from India thinks I'm a savage for eating a cow so be it and that person is entitled to that opinion and that's fine. The Japanese are savages for continuing to slaughter whales. I can have that opinion and its OK. You're the only one offended here you dummy. I'm not going to watch your video.
Gatherel t1_j6ld0cn wrote
Opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one. But an opinion does not overwrite a fact and neither can an asshole. Don’t get them confused.
lostsurfer00 t1_j6ldd4w wrote
Oh I'm not. My opinion is valid. You're the asshole dummy.
squatting_your_attic t1_j6lcnj0 wrote
Damn, that was some good scolding.
lostsurfer00 t1_j6ld8ce wrote
No it wasn't. There's sustainably eating animals and non-sustainably eating animals. It's my opinion a group of ppl non-sustainably killing a species are savages. Nothing is going to change my opinion of that.
ContemplatingPrison t1_j6luqmo wrote
There is nothing sustainable about the meat industry
Matt1050 t1_j6lfay3 wrote
"I will never change my opinion" you sound like a very open minded and reasonable individual.
Pyrollusion t1_j6mchxs wrote
Sure let's go after almost extinct species like fucking idiots. But then again, looking at how Japan treats its own citizens I'm not sure why Im surprised.
Justin__D t1_j6onh27 wrote
> looking at how Japan treats its own citizens
Can you elaborate on this? It's hardly China, Iran, or North Korea. I've never really thought of the (modern) Japanese as living under an oppressive regime?
MirrorReflection0880 t1_j6lxtx4 wrote
Not sure if Japan really eat a lot of whale. i know NOrwegians eat whale
GrnShttrdLyte t1_j6mlsq2 wrote
Norway doesn't eat a lot of whale.
The amount of whale meat in stores is only a couple hundred tons per year, whereas the others (beef, pork, chicken) are in the hundreds of thousands of tons. Other fish and seafood consumption total several thousand tons.
Depending on where you are in Norway, whale may not even be available at your local grocery store. If you do, its probably buried in the frozen food section.
9detat t1_j6m2qna wrote
One company in one location, hardly “Japan”.
ablondedude t1_j6pcjq6 wrote
Except the entire industry gets massive subsidies from the Japanese government. They absolutely have a hand in this.
DreamCrosser t1_j6n45s7 wrote
Wasn’t there lIke… a whole Animal Planet show that was talking about this being a bad thing?
Kind_Bullfrog_4073 t1_j6lf4zc wrote
sounds unsanitary
kg0529 t1_j6no0qo wrote
It is for “science”. /s
NervousJ t1_j6mea2f wrote
The world's most delicious "research".
Ancient-Builder3646 t1_j6mv7u4 wrote
For science!
Torewin t1_j6nb8sn wrote
Isn’t it illegal to kill and eat whales?
khayla0815 t1_j6obycx wrote
Ridiculous
Friendral t1_j6omtxt wrote
Ahhh Japan, I hate your whaling.
Gelodit t1_j6ml0ib wrote
The Japanese are some of the smartest people on the planet but this is NOT a smart move.
homkono22 t1_j6mp8kr wrote
Don't generalize, people are individuals, judge people individually on their own merits. Culturally there can be some things you can generalize as many are exposed to said culture throughout their lives and things get normalized. But not everyone will follow everything in their own culture.
"x race are some of the smartest people" is a dumb generalized statement, being japanese doesn't automatically make anyone smart. Human intelligence vary, culture and educational systems have an impact but smart people are smart regardless. Whale hunting is down to bad education regarding the subject, not due to people being intelligent or not in general. People are people regardless of where they come from.
[deleted] t1_j6lmxzi wrote
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FlyAirLari t1_j6m4ty3 wrote
Cool, how do I get one for my workplace?
Of course whaling is only for scientific purposes. Culinary science.
nathanpizazz t1_j6lo6oi wrote
Is it farmed whale meat?
AlmostLover5997 t1_j6lvchu wrote
Whale required HUGE open sea to grow. So, no.
nathanpizazz t1_j6lwzuv wrote
Pfff. Says you.
lonelydan t1_j6luz6y wrote
Lol hell naw
DubstateNY t1_j6o5fl1 wrote
I’m a fourth generation whale farmer
gadadhoon t1_j6lp76j wrote
"we can respect the lives of whales by appreciating their meat" Does the same apply to, say, people at retirement parties?