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flightwaves t1_j7wii9y wrote

If they want use that space it needs to be properly maintained and taxed appropriately. Both things the city council needs to solve.

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[deleted] t1_j7x1802 wrote

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ClemsonLaxer t1_j7xo96b wrote

I mean, would you prefer to give public space away to private businesses for free?

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panda12291 t1_j80f05u wrote

I'd prefer to charge both them and cars for parking actually, but if we're giving the space away for free to individuals and businesses for cars that cause congestion and pollution then we can let a business use the same space to serve meals to locals...

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DadBodofanAmerican t1_j7z2st4 wrote

Sure, or come up with a reasonable per-foot of frontage rate that can be paid annually. But figuring out a new tax valuation seems a bit silly when the city will see benefits from increased economic activity, foot traffic, and payroll taxes. These spots were just going to be used to warehouse cars anyway.

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Belikekermit t1_j80mkop wrote

If that is a metered spot/s then they should at least cover that lost revenue. The taxes they pay would increase if they serve more customers, unfortunately many of these sheds remain empty.

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IndependentContest84 t1_j7w8uuh wrote

While I understand them, so many of them are such and eyesore and are annoying to walk by when their crowded. Always getting cut off by servers and guests; and some of them take up so much room that to walk by them it's single file. There's needs to be more regulation on them.

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tikihiki t1_j80bg8p wrote

I think regulation is what business owners actually want. Regulation is clarity. With clear requirements they can invest in making the sheds good without taking a risk.

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[deleted] t1_j7x62qe wrote

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ZA44 t1_j7xb0so wrote

I’d hardly call the parking free, most restaurants are on commercial strips which usually are metered blocks. With the way I see a lot of these sheds in my neighborhood I’d rather a parked car over the decrepit rat nests that they’ve become.

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[deleted] t1_j7xcpy2 wrote

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ZA44 t1_j7xexg3 wrote

I agree but with the exception that all residential streets are metered except for the permit holders. One permit per home / apartment.

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[deleted] t1_j7xg7kr wrote

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ZA44 t1_j7xjlz9 wrote

Says who? Many households around me have multiple cars and I still find parking no problem. If a permit isn’t required make it so the the permit can be turned in to the city for a income or property tax rebate.

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[deleted] t1_j7xmsj0 wrote

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ZA44 t1_j7xoewu wrote

I don’t agree with this anti car lunacy you’re babbling on about.

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Dracomarine t1_j7xqciv wrote

This just in, no one wants to pay for your hunk of ugly metal.

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ZA44 t1_j7yrpy5 wrote

Sorry but “no one” in this case is a small group of terminally online people that have a weird crusade over cars.

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Dracomarine t1_j80dlo3 wrote

You do realize car owners are in the minority in this city right? Literally everyone is tired of the noise, light, constant honking, nearly dying to some lunatic with no insurance who has to cut 2 seconds off their commute.

Pretty logical to want that blight out of the city if you ask me.

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ZA44 t1_j80kdhc wrote

You make it sound like the minority is tiny while actually 45% of all NYC households in NYC own a car.. Who is this “everyone” you’re talking about?

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Dracomarine t1_j80n2o1 wrote

Last time I checked, 55 was bigger than 45, Just saying

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ZA44 t1_j80ut9x wrote

55% is not “everyone”.

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Dracomarine t1_j831u7s wrote

Pretty much is. Besides, if you want to drive your big poluting SUV there is a whole entire rest of the country you are more than welcome to do it in.

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ZA44 t1_j83w8a6 wrote

Nah, I’ll stay right here because this is my home. You can go back upstate.

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Dracomarine t1_j86ijzf wrote

Nah, I think Ill stay here and respect pedestrians and my fellow new yorkers by not acting like a self entitled lunatic.

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ManhattanRailfan t1_j8fa2mb wrote

Yeah, god forbid people want a safer, healthier, quieter, more prosperous community.

−1

ECK-2188 t1_j7wa8xf wrote

Why would the city allow businesses to continue outdoor dining when they can use that valuable parking space for revenue and ticketing?

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chargeorge t1_j7wcj2v wrote

The plans for permanent outdoor dining have shifted a fair amount, so I'm not sure where it stands, but there was a fee involved with it. Like a thousand dollars a year or something? not sure how much the ticket revenue on the average parking spot in NYC is.

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ECK-2188 t1_j7wds7a wrote

I had a co-worker that was ticketed three times in one day in a span of 3-4hrs. Dunno what his grand total was, but it can be anywhere from $65 per ticket to $100 from what I’ve heard.

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drpvn t1_j7x76x5 wrote

The city does make a half billion a year from parking tickets.

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ManhattanRailfan t1_j8fa9xr wrote

Ticketing? What city are you living in? The NYPD doesn't give out tickets anymore.

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ethanarc t1_j7xkw6q wrote

They get far more money from taxes on the meals sold in the sheds then they would on the parking space revenue

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ECK-2188 t1_j7yaudz wrote

That is highly unlikely seeing as said money is predicated on whether the business is still standing.

If they close up shop due to inflation, increased expenses on overhead, or our incoming recession then that “tax revenue from meals” evaporates.

Meanwhile parking spaces will be available for meter and ASP regulations damn near all year round with the exception of holidays and snowfall.

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ethanarc t1_j7ybspj wrote

> During the pandemic, Toronto, like many cities, began allowing some on-street parking spaces to be used as patios by local businesses. As reported by The Globe and Mail, residents spent a total of $181 million at curbside patios within 13 weeks of summer in 2021. If those spaces had remained dedicated to parking, only $3.7 million would have been reaped during the same time period. In other words, curbside patios produced 49 times more revenue than what would have been earned from parking fees.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/11/22/torontos-curbside-patios-made-49-times-more-money-than-the-parking-they-replaced?format=amp

With a sales tax of 8.875% in nyc, the city would be earning around 5x more tax income from dining compared to street parking.

You’re really basing your economic analysis on the possibility that some restaurants might at some point in time be out of business and still have a dining shed up? What kind of wishy-washy ‘I just want the data to say what I want’ logic is that? It doesn’t matter if each and every restaurant shed is always occupied, it earns so much more income regardless.

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ECK-2188 t1_j7ynosp wrote

You realize 60% of restaurants fail within their first year on average? 80% within the first 5 years.

As per businessinsider.con

This is common knowledge for anyone in the restaurant business.

Personally I don’t want businesses to fail. I hope they do well and have patrons, but this is just statistically driven data.

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DadBodofanAmerican t1_j7zc3lh wrote

Increasing the amount of space they have to sell food increases the likelihood they'll stay open, generating more tax money. And if they close the city should require them to take down the outdoor dining, freeing up that precious parking you're so concerned about.

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ECK-2188 t1_j7ze4jh wrote

You don’t have to convince me.

Not my problem.

You have to convince the city :3

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ironichaos t1_j7xo501 wrote

Imo they should charge a fee and have some sort of building code. That way you get rid of the sheds that are one wind gust away from a Massive lawsuit.

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ADustedEwok t1_j7zbfuj wrote

I can’t believe some of you enjoy eating in rat shit sheds. Just because the employee swept away the rat shit doesn’t mean you’re not sitting in a bacteria ball pit. It’s ironic really.

Sidewalk seating is enough. If a restaurant can’t maintain without a shed they probably aren’t a one that will last anyways.

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psychothumbs OP t1_j7zfywx wrote

Are you like not familiar with the concept of eating outside or something? How sterile do you think picnic tables are?

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ADustedEwok t1_j7zg8qb wrote

I don’t eat outside at places but if it’s an option I’d prefer just sidewalk seating for those who want that option

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tikihiki t1_j80c2c5 wrote

The most parklet heavy areas are dining-heavy areas where sidewalk dining isn't an option. The sidewalks on mulberry for instance are already too small.

They really should remove the parking (or close the street entirely) and extend the sidewalk. Piecemeal parking space removal is a compromise.

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Belikekermit t1_j80mxv2 wrote

Yeah but when I go for a picnic, I bring a plastic table cloth and disinfect. Can't do that at a restaurant.

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