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This city is getting stranger and stranger. And more homogenized. Ugh.

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😫

Excuse me? WTF.

Wowwwwwwwwww. I can’t believe it I used to love going there, I frequent the cellar a lot more now.

I'm confused why the US govt allows a foreign nation to own significant real estate in the US, not a foreign national, an actual nation. Outside of diplomatic or residence type places etc. of course

Sad to see any comedy club close, but I haven’t even thought of Caroline’s since Cathy Ladman and Rosie O’Donnell were headliners.

I thought that place was an institution.

Use shit it of it goes people!!!!

> used to love going there

> frequent the Cellar a lot more now

I think this is a common theme, hence the closing…

Why would property owners from the Middle East care about the history and culture of NYC?

I tell you about those foreign landlords. No respect, no respect at all.

Because when other countries own property in the United States, it gives us leverage over them and encourages them to feel generally positive about our welfare. It's related to why Alexander Hamilton wanted the new federal government to assume state debts and issue US bonds to anyone who would buy them. People with whom you have ongoing economic ties, especially involving property, will tend to support your welfare so as to avoid endangering their investment. There are downsides to that arrangement, but it's a powerful tool in maintaining the United States' preeminence in international affairs and encouraging other nations not to put our peace and stability in too much danger.

Yup, it’s either another bank, drug store, or Starbucks

$

Or a weed store

Absolutely this. International Relations 101.

Edit: yes, it sucks sometimes that the consequences are often at the determent of locals, but it's a tradeoff. This particular example is not even a drop in the bucket for local impact, but something like housing owned as investment properties or tax shelters by foreigners which has no chance of serving the purpose of being housing is a bigger one.

Well, at least there's always those other fine comedy clubs the hustlers in Times Square sell tickets to

Oh I get this one, but I think the downsides are worse. Yes, you don't want your investment to go belly up, like for example when many countries nationalized industries and such. There's good and bad, but I think there needs to be a firmer line on things such as real estate acquisition vs. direct investment or equity investments which. The idea that a foreign nation collects rents like an artistocrat of old in the US is pretty fucking odd and comes with many issues

Sad. I just read about this on Deadline and came to see what other people thought. Was a city staple IMO.

They are mostly comedians barking to get stage time.

Yeah it just sucks that when I look at these gleaming safe deposit box towers, destroying yet another cultural institution, the lights are never on at night. They should be taxed if vacant/unused.

More buyers … higher prices … more tax revenue

Not for long, unfortunately! (Hope not!)

I was just there and had the best time. Venue was super chill too. This sucks

NIMBYs and property being quickly gobbled up by private equity and foreign interests taking the "fun" out of Fun City.

Now I’ve got the damn song stuck in my head again.

Ha-ha. Too soon?

Europeans in the 19th century didn't quite understand the federal government wasn't going to make good on state debts sold to them and lost money.

Currently US Treasury bonds are considered among the safest, if boring, investments to hold around the world.

Would you rather it midtown instead of say in Brooklyn or Queens?

Duller. The city is getting duller

More homogenized is true - and more homogenized is duller

This is really sad.

Definitely not NIMBY, more like YIMBY gentrification.

That's really unfortunate. Haven't been in quite a few years but always enjoyed going there.

Gentrification of existing stock. The main reason why all my favorite spots to eat and shop at shut down, because they couldn't survive a year or two with space in short supply and rents charging a fortune without competing space cutting into it. And in many places where land were historically zoned for anything else other than retail like manufacturing (that only exists abroad now), it takes years and more added costs to get through the city's broken land review process!

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NIMBY has nothing to do with this story. What is it with this sub and the past couple months it's NIMBY this or NIMBY that. My only take away is that people have no idea what they're saying.

Doesn't the Saudi or Chinese fund own the iconic Waldorf Astoria in midtown east

Idk if it’s paid Astro turfing or just some weird cult but there are people that seem to be convinced all problems in NYC could simply be resolved by building more luxury apartment buildings

Have you been in the subway the last three years? It is quiet scary , definitely not dull.

Foreign investors definitely seem to fit that criteria.

Shes made a business decision to move on, 40 years in one spot is a long time, she has the know how to open up a smaller place with cheaper rent downtown or Brooklyn, even west on 9th Avenue, that’s if she’s up to that hassle consuming her life at her age. Let her sell the rights to her name , have some one else work hard opening the place up and she can get a fee as a consultant. Comedy clubs will come and go but that craft will always find a spot for showcasing.

Watch the movie The Laundromat

Gilbert Gottfried passes away and Caroline's goes not to long after. Crazy...

My brain did read it as dank drug store, or Starbucks.

They are closing that location for now, but they posted on their social media that they are looking for a new stage/venue. They’ll be back

I’d rather it be taxed or more affordability priced for residents of NY regardless of what borough it’s in.

I saw Charlie Murphy here. It was amazing

What? They’re doing exactly what this economy has enabled them to do.

You think America intervenes in other countries with respect to their history and culture?

These investors just want to make money. That’s the beginning and end of the story. Your politicians are selling your culture.

Wooooooooooow was my exact reaction — end of an era for sure

or a coffee shop or beer bar that looks like it's local but somehow has all the same prepackaged crap that the other fake local coffee shop or beer bar has.

>NIMBYs

nah.

>private equity

that's the problem

> with space in short supply

what are you even talking about. everywhere i go for at least the last five years but especially since covid, it's empty store fronts. it's not because of NIMBYs. it's because private interests own everything and prefer to keep it vacant than lower the rent.

yeah. this is really depressing news.

That’s a strong word for what those stores are. One step above a table on the sidewalk.

That’s what happens over time.

They still pack the room out. They are at the end of a 10 year lease so I think the price hike is the main reason.

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So how are we going to see Artie Lange and Bob Levy now?

if Saudi investments keeps our risk of nuclear annihilation lower, I’ll deal with two Starbucks on every corner. I’m still going to bitch about it though.

Nooooooo! I’ve only been there for one show but it was a great venue 🥲

They are making a reference to comedian Rodney Dangerfield.

My bad. Thanks for the info!

Saw Sinbad @ Carolines. Cool venue

brooklyn and queens is rocking! manhattan been homogenized

well it depends on your idea of fun

under rated comment

this is basically why they are closing.

I feel like people in this comment thread are missing the part where Caroline's is in the middle of Times Square. I'm sad that they're closing it, as I'm a big stand-up fan, but it's not like this was some neighborhood gem in the LES being replaced by corporate real estate or something.

Yep, there's locations that have been closed since before I moved into my current neighborhood (nearing 6 years now), and have just been vacant storefronts the entire time.

There's what used to be a small Italian(?) spot that closed maybe 1-2 weeks after I moved into this neighborhood that has just been shuttered for the last 5.5 years.

It's absolutely ridiculous how many things are allowed to just sit empty, doing nothing.

Just wanted to hijack the top comment to say they said they’re looking for a new/bigger venue in their post. Doesn’t look like they are closing for good.

Even chain drugstores are getting knocked out. So just Starbucks or Bank

Bob eating blue cheese out a girl's ass is truly underrated... :)

It will never be the same

That’s fair. Personally it wasn’t my favorite club, but I do think it was an iconic spot for the neighborhood. Hopefully the next spot they pick out will be an upgrade for them, only time will tell though.

Ironically, NIMBYism is major driver of gentrification. Most people in lower income neighborhoods don't own their property and they get priced out when the supply can't keep up with the demand.

No NYC institution is so beloved that it can’t be sacrificed at the altar of capitalist greed

Gentrification is definitely behind the YIMBY shit. They avoid the local mom and pop establishments and open/support the new businesses. Unless one of them “discovers” the spot and gives the okay via an IG reel or local blog write up.

The local businesses are forced to make upgrades to their façade and stock new/artisanal products, to accommodate the transplants. If they don’t, they go out of business because their loyal customer base has been priced out of the neighborhood.

Sad for the history but the place was a complete disaster. They treated their workers like hot garbage and cheaped out on basically everything. Refused to maintain any semblance of pride or quality. It was a dilapidated mess.

You have the directionality wrong. Locals won't be priced out of neighborhoods if the city actually built adequate housing stock to keep up with demand. Not expanding housing stock doesn't prevent gentrification, it actually worsens it. High income earners will still flock to these neighborhoods because even they get priced out of the more "attractive" neighborhoods, which they then push out the people who have lived there.

If there was enough housing stock in the first place, there would be no pressure on these neighborhoods. If these neighborhoods had adequate housing stock, then they could absorb these transplants without displacing the people who formerly lived there.

The only benefactors from NIMBYism are property owners, as it artificially inflates their asset. Unfortunately this demographic is one of the most consistent voting blocks, which is why the city council is almost entirely NIMBY, and they'd prefer shit like a parking garage then approving high density housing.

This is so sad!!!

> Locals won't be priced out of neighborhoods if the city actually built adequate housing stock to keep up with demand.

The demand will never go down unless the city goes bankrupt and NYC becomes the “City of God”, like in the late 60s, early 70s.

Explain the real reason why gentrification exploded. People are getting priced out be the new residents are willing to pay 2x-3x the rent. They avoid the established businesses that the locals supported. They complain about the local customs/activities/noises, in turn criminalizing/punishing the locals.

Just look at the mircomobility movement. NYC always had cyclist of all ages. But after gentrification popped up, they became anti-car and swear the MTA has no flaws.

You're right, the demand for NYC will never disappear, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to keep up with demand. In fact, NYC hasn't even been trying. Construction growth has mostly flatlined since the 1990s and NYC issues fewer housing permits then nearly every other large city, clearly under-building is not working. We can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend like people won't flock to NYC, people will, and it will only displace more residents if we do nothing.

Yes, transplants may like different things than long term residents, but like I said, if we had adequate housing stock they wouldn't displace the locals in the first place.

You seem like you're arguing a strawman of the micromobility movement, something I am only loosely aware of. I'll eat my hat if you can find anyone who claims "the MTA has no flaws".

It's ironic you cite car ownership as a trait unique to lower income locals, considering the majority of new yorkers don't have a car, and those that do tend to have higher incomes. Car ownership is directly correlated with income in NYC, which means the "transplants" you have been deriding are the population most likely to own a car.

https://wellango.github.io/posts/2021/06/who-owns-cars-in-nyc/

I read the owner is just seeking out other locations not just closing entirely. They'll probably end up in brooklyn I bet

I see you drank somebodies koolaid. Your comments reek of a realty broker transplant. No level of vacant properties will decrease the demand. As someone else stated there’s a lot residential and commercial vacancies in the city currently.

Gentrification is pushing out local low-income and middle-class families. Not because of a “stock” shortage, but because they can afford to pay 3x the asking price.

You’re right, not everyone owns a car but we understand pumping more money into the MTA isn’t the answer. Transit deserts, have been ignored by the MTA and the micro-mobility advocates. Thats because the transit deserts are undesirable to the transplants, “because it’s too far from the subway”. Even though those communities have zero congestion.

So tired of this. They keep raising rent and all that's left is banks and real estate and restaurants.

Right. The nuclear option (short of war) against these gulf petro-states would be seizing all their assets in the US. The more they buy up the better.

>. As someone else stated there’s a lot residential and commercial vacancies in the city currently.

Ah, I see my mistake was presuming you had any amount of good faith in commenting. It's obvious you don't. But just to go through why you're so incredibly wrong.

NYC vacancies are at all time low https://www.globest.com/2022/09/12/nyc-multifamily-vacancy-rate-hovers-at-two-decade-low/?slreturn=20221107175941. This is a neglible amount of vacancies. 97% of NYC office buildings aren't viable for conversion to apt buildings.

"Not because of a “stock” shortage, but because they can afford to pay 3x the asking price"

This is factually wrong, once again. 97.7% percent of homes were sold for approximately the asking price.

https://www.noradarealestate.com/blog/new-york-real-estate-market/#:~:text=In%20September%202022%2C%20the%20median,the%20asking%20price%20on%20average

"Thats because the transit deserts are undesirable to the transplants, “because it’s too far from the subway”. Even though those communities have zero congestion"

Sounds a lot like someone drank the "pro-car" koolaid, your comment reeks like that of an entitled driver. I'm assuming you own a car lmao? The obvious answer here is to expand the MTA to these deserts and bus service.

Your entire argument is based on your anecdotal feelings & emotions. There is no merit to them, whatsoever. But i'm sure you will ignore this comment and call me a good for nothing transplant.

I wish the city was getting stranger! The homogenization is the opposite of strangeness.

The cultural institution that is... Times Square?

Landlords strike again.

Said that when she closed the club on 8th avenue.

Said it again when she closed Caroline’s at south street seaport(featured in the movie working girl)

NY always changes. It’s not a bad thing.

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They went to Times Square before it was what it is today. Started as a cabaret in Chelsea and when they moved to TS, it was unsavory.