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LabLawyer t1_j0qbu9q wrote

Reminder that Scientology is a business parading as a religion and commits human trafficking.

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downtownwawa t1_j0qeov7 wrote

Wait until you hear about what the Catholic Church has done.

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LabLawyer t1_j0qf43e wrote

I'm well aware. That's why I'm not Catholic anymore. But saying stuff like this doesn't help the people that are getting abused everyday by Scientology and spending their life savings on bogus courses.

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[deleted] t1_j0qgcht wrote

[removed]

−13

defusted t1_j0qi1av wrote

Man, it is almost as if I can hate the Catholic church AND scientology at the same time. So should we not criticize the westboro Baptist church because we have to spend all our time gripping about the Catholic church? Can I still complain about my trash guys leaving my cans in the middle of the road? Or does it have to be all Catholic church all the time?

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LabLawyer t1_j0qhj0g wrote

Trust me I'm plenty upset about that. The sex abuse scandal in the catholic church is also well known. There are many organizations, lawyers, and others working to get justice for the victims and prosecute the abusers and those who covered up the crime not happening as fast as many, including myself, would like it to, but the wheels are in motion.

The same can't be said about Scientology. The public outrage against them isn't high enough yet to convince the government to act.

It's also okay to be upset about both. I can focus on more than one thing at a time. Trauma isn't a competition.

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Dorigan23 t1_j0qi5o0 wrote

you can criticize multiple religions at once, its not like criticizing scientology makes us all forget the millienia of atrocities committed by the church

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Character_Macaron133 t1_j0ql0he wrote

You are soooo edgy

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[deleted] t1_j0qll0d wrote

[removed]

−1

sugr_magnolia t1_j0qn0eq wrote

You're being overly broad with your generalizations while still singling out specific faiths. Stop.

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[deleted] t1_j0qouel wrote

[removed]

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sugr_magnolia t1_j0qqa4z wrote

Taking off my mod hat for a minute:

If you're trying to make a point, do a better job.

Old Pine is a Presbyterian church, since you didn't bother to look.

I'm stepping back and will allow one of my fellow mods to decide what to do with this post.

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[deleted] t1_j0qs35i wrote

[removed]

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HobbyPlodder t1_j0r4rr6 wrote

Dude, you blamed "Jews" for conspiring with the Catholic church to (falsely, I assume you mean) criticize scientology in this thread. That is wildly broad, and imo, outright antisemitism.

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starboardbaby t1_j0qzazl wrote

I know the Catholic Church has committed countless atrocities which are mostly well-known by the general public, but I just don’t think your average person knows as much about Scientology. I think increasing general awareness of the scumminess of Scientology will also prevent people from getting scammed/brainwashed like u/LabLawyer said.

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7thAndGreenhill t1_j0r3a9w wrote

I left the Catholic Church without losing family or friends

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Squadooch t1_j0u146w wrote

Or being stalked. Those things are the big diff.

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narkj OP t1_j0pkmqk wrote

The church purchased the 15-story former Cunningham Piano building in 2007 for $7.85 million and laid out detailed plans for the "Philadelphia Freedom Org" on philadelphiaideal.org, including a chapel, a bookstore and even an office for Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, who died in 1986.

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lardbiscuits t1_j0qeafb wrote

The leader’s wife is up there on the top floor with Xenu

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Theresa6868 t1_j0tq3dx wrote

Yeah where the he!l is Shelly? Why isn't David MsCav even an Official Suspect? He must pay that City real nice.

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owenhinton98 t1_j0qct5z wrote

I wonder if there’s a closet in there that John travolta and tom cruise won’t come out of

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TuesDazeGone t1_j0s0k04 wrote

I tried to give you a silver but accidentally gave it to the guy under you.

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swagmire_ t1_j0sc33s wrote

for your well-intended gesture 😉

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puckpanix t1_j0svae2 wrote

Could I perhaps interest you in a simple electronic test to help rid you of negative influences of past events or behaviors

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nolandeluca t1_j0s0roi wrote

Nah PMC has owned it for so much longer, they donated it a while back, the 2007 sales record is incorrect and has no proof on Philadelphia property search. I went down a rabbit hole trying to buy this thing a few years back, they transferred owners in 2019 but that was the last update. Unfortunately they keep paying the taxes.

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Normally_aspirated t1_j0si7b1 wrote

Wild. Thanks for the info… My father worked in this building as a young attorney in the 80’s

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nolandeluca t1_j0skflk wrote

I hear the lobby used to be really cool, wonder what shape it's in

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ColdJay64 t1_j0pojeh wrote

I always wonder about this building, any idea if something will be done with it?

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lemmingsagain t1_j0pswiw wrote

They don't have to pay taxes so they can just let it sit indefinitely. Check out the weird empty storefronts in Clearwater. Take away their tax-free status and all of their unused real estate will be jettisoned.

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RoverTheMonster t1_j0q5r33 wrote

Why do we grant religious institutions tax exemptions?

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jbphilly t1_j0q6zwa wrote

A more important question is "why do we grant Scientology religious status like it's a real church?"

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JennItalia269 t1_j0qdsmy wrote

Basically, The IRS was being sued left and right by Scientology so they decided to recognize them as a tax exempt organization and Scientology ended all litigation.

The lawsuits are right out of the Scientology playbook. It’s fucking stupid and they never should have, but here we are. More can be found here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_status_of_Scientology_in_the_United_States

And: https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/11/12/irs-and-scientology-everything-you-want-to-know-and-more/?sh=48d0f6564042

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siandresi t1_j0qkard wrote

I imagine if an institution wants to not pay taxes, become a church and has enough cash (and scrupules) like many things around, it can just lawyer up and argue they are “technically” a religion. Do the spaghetti monster people have tax exempt status

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blowjob215 t1_j0r196t wrote

Pretty sure they’re a disorganized religion, i.e. they’re all out there on their own, believing in the great spaghetti monster individually, not coming together as a congregation to form a church

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mjg580 t1_j0qtjjx wrote

They aren’t any different than any other high control religion like Jehovah Witnesses, LDS, or other fundamentalist churches.

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MarekRules t1_j0sja38 wrote

Religious organizations should pay taxes, or else more organizations like Scientology will claim religious rights and exemptions.

Separation of church and state PLEASE. Why are we making churches exempt, they are just another business (whether you believe in anyone specific, this is still true).

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Embarrassed-Raccoon7 t1_j0srti2 wrote

We allow churches to be tax exempt for the same reason schools are tax exempt, they provide services and resources for the community. I’m not saying all of them but the majority do help the community and the economy. Separating church and state has, in my opinion, little to do with taxes. Now separating Scientology from “religion” makes sense to me but that’s something different.

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barchueetadonai t1_j0yy8h0 wrote

Taxes are the state’s ability to compel you to pay them whatever is decided, and for it to be in US dollars. How can you claim that separating church and state has little to do with taxes?

Schools are government-run institutions and are a requirement for every child. Churches are quite the opposite.

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classicrockchick t1_j0sw4pd wrote

Because Scientology sicced so many lawyers on the IRS, the IRS went "ok fine you're a fucking religion, now will you leave us the hell alone?".

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John_EightThirtyTwo t1_j0vb5om wrote

I don't see how you can give the government the power to decide what is and isn't a religion and still observe the First-Amendment ban on "respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

The government tells religions they'll lose their tax-exempt status if they engage in political advocacy. I agree it would be better if they just didn't give them a tax exemption in the first place. But you can't set the government up in the business of deciding which religions are The Truth and which ones are made up and dumb. (For one thing, they're all made up and dumb.)

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jbphilly t1_j0w1scx wrote

I agree, there's obviously a lot of sticky issues involved here. But the government does get into the business of deciding what's a real religion or not. If I declare my house the holy site of a new religion, and myself the prophet, do you think I'm getting a tax break out of that? Fuck no. So the question is already where we draw the line, not whether.

>(For one thing, they're all made up and dumb.)

My whole point is, some are vastly and demonstrably more made and up and dumb than others. A scam cooked up by a moist-mouthed creep from the 1950s is a world apart from a millennia-old collection of traditions spanning continents.

0

Sendit57 t1_j0q7dzz wrote

Who are we to say their beliefs are any less valid than other religions?

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jbphilly t1_j0q8ev9 wrote

It's not about the validity of the beliefs, it's that the entire "religion" is transparently an abusive cult.

Although, we can also speak to the validity of the beliefs. While ancient religions like the Abrahamic or Indian ones might ask you to believe things without evidence, Scientology asks you to believe that a drug-addicted, serial-lying grifter from the 1950s holds the key to universal truth.

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skip_tracer t1_j0qcpe2 wrote

I have a complex about oral hygiene. I'm incredibly sensitive to bad breath, and I pride myself on mine being fresh. Every time I see vids or pics of L. Ron I wince at the thought of what his mouth must've smelled like.

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jbphilly t1_j0qdimv wrote

For real, that fucking video footage of his nasty-ass mouth ought to be enough for anybody to stay far away from anything he invented.

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sciencefaire t1_j0qdo9s wrote

I didn't know anything about his teeth but when I went to Google him, "L Ron Hubbard teeth" was like the 2nd Google search suggestion 😂

Yikes. He probably had massive tonsil stone breath too. Bleh.

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skip_tracer t1_j0s90zt wrote

I work with someone like this. You can literally smell him when he enters a room and doesn't even open his mouth. It's gag inducing for me.

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JennItalia269 t1_j0qe3nn wrote

Fucking hell. I feel the same way. Had to smell like cigarettes and roofing tar a yard away.

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downtownwawa t1_j0qek29 wrote

I agree Scientology is goofy and weird but idk the crusades were pretty awful and the Catholic Church routinely shields and protects their pedo priests all around the world. So when you say it’s “transparently an abusive cult”, you gotta look at the thousands of years of abusive a cult-y behavior of Catholicism, judaism, and Islam. Those religions have undeniably been worse for humanity and are responsible for millions of deaths, abuse, and otherworldly harm.

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jbphilly t1_j0qgiyy wrote

Sure. The difference is, while mainstream religions all contain examples of abusive behavior, with Scientology, the abusive behavior is the whole thing.

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downtownwawa t1_j0qhnel wrote

What? I don’t think you know what Scientology does. Like, do you think people walk in and get abused and keep coming back? Truly curious what you think is happening there.

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jbphilly t1_j0r3ev9 wrote

>Like, do you think people walk in and get abused and keep coming back?

Uh, yes, that's literally how cults work. Was this supposed to be a serious comment?

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AbsentEmpire t1_j0s49qg wrote

Sounds like any other fundamentalist cult like evangelicalism, the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

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jbphilly t1_j0sgqzq wrote

Eh, Mormonism fits that description way better than the other two. Mormonism also makes explicit claims about recent historical events that can be flatly disproven, mainly stuff about the history of the Americas (tribes of ancient Jews coming over by boat, the existence of horses and metallurgy when we know those didn't exist here, naming the sites of enormous battles at locations where archaeology can establish that didn't happen, etc.)

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omygoodnessreally t1_j0qgvi1 wrote

You have to pay to learn their beliefs.

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ItsjustJim621 t1_j0qrv3t wrote

And that’s where they get you…you’ll get close to attaining the next level or whatever it is, and they’ll come up with some bullshit arbitrary revision earlier in the level, which you’re then forced to start over again and buy the new revised books.

People have gone literally bankrupt doing this.

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31November t1_j0r18nr wrote

Supposedly, religions are charitible, so giving them tax-exempt status will free them to help the poor and whatnot.

In reality, they use their tax exempt status to build 16,000 person stadiums with TVs in the bathroom stalls and keep the poor out during hurricanes... for Jesus (Note, this is a story about him opening his doors after initially locking everyone out.)

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_PinkPirate t1_j0r5dwy wrote

I want to know why religious institutions were allowed to get PPP loans when they’re already non-taxed. That was total bullshit.

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MaoZedongs t1_j0ru358 wrote

Because they employ people in their work. Just like most other non-profit organizations. The charitable work most churches offer was crucial during the pandemic.

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Dorigan23 t1_j0qhxi0 wrote

Because they're in charge of the government

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Mission-Curve4273 t1_j0r64rd wrote

I think we need a flat minimum tax like 20% for all organizations, whether they are businesses, non-profits, religious institutions, or whatever. Everyone should chip in for basic necessities of civilization, like roads, police and fire, courts, etc.

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eyevolve t1_j0shwi7 wrote

i can't wait for them to pass on the savings to us.

eggs are up like 500%

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Donotaskmedontellme t1_j0txl26 wrote

I think recommending "more taxes" should be punishable by death.

More of a bad thing is never good.

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justanawkwardguy t1_j0u4iqo wrote

So you like that, regardless of religion, all churches/synagogues/temples are tax free? I think they all deserve to be taxed, as part of separation of church and state. Maybe not more than a similar for-profit org, but they 100% should pay some form of taxes

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Indiana_Jawnz t1_j10hq36 wrote

Religious institutions not being taxes is a result of the separation of church and state. Taxing houses of worship directly entangles the state with religion far more than not taxing them does.

See Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York (1970)

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Donotaskmedontellme t1_j0u4rfn wrote

Well if we play that game you know that since about 90% of elected officials are Christian, if we start picking and choosing which religious buildings are tax free and which ones aren't, you know it's not going to be the Christians paying more.

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justanawkwardguy t1_j0u4u79 wrote

I’m saying they all deserve to be taxed, regardless of religion. Nice try though

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Donotaskmedontellme t1_j0u4ykp wrote

And I'm saying fuck taxes

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justanawkwardguy t1_j0u572c wrote

You do understand that taxing non profits like churches means you have to pay less taxes, right?

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SouthPhilly_215 t1_j0qvavq wrote

Why do we grant corporations tax exemptions?

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blowjob215 t1_j0r1msv wrote

Not all purchases made by corporations are exempt from sales tax. They get their tax bill as low as possible by claiming investments for future business, i.e. building a factory or buying new machines to put in it is exempt because it’s a capital expense necessary to generate future revenue, which will (ideally) be taxed.

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nolandeluca t1_j0sk5u7 wrote

Because they lobbied enough to pass that law, the Catholic church is the single largest landowner in the US and the world iirc

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AskMoreQuestionsOk t1_j0suqf7 wrote

Because they aren’t businesses that generate income. Money that you give to a church goes to a specific function - the food bank it runs, the roof and electricity, church services, the outreach program, staff to answer the phone and run the place, the local hospice, schools.

Tax them and they have to generate income, and that would mean taking a lot of money that would normally be given to one of its functions - the church food bank, for example, and give it to a government. That’s the opposite of what you’d want to do from a government standpoint.

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Donotaskmedontellme t1_j0txhpb wrote

Because they're considered charities. If you tried taxing charities, you'd get Ghaddafi'd by the end of the day.

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Indiana_Jawnz t1_j116m3s wrote

Separation of Church and state.

See Walz v. Tax Commission of the City of New York (1970)

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[deleted] t1_j116w1x wrote

[deleted]

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Indiana_Jawnz t1_j1191tf wrote

That's not all it says.

Please refer to point 3 here.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/397/664/#674

" 3. The tax exemption creates only a minimal and remote involvement between church and state, far less than taxation of churches would entail, and it restricts the fiscal relationship between them, thus tending to complement and reinforce the desired separation insulating each from the other. Pp. 397 U. S. 674-676."

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[deleted] t1_j11j32a wrote

[deleted]

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Indiana_Jawnz t1_j1249a6 wrote

Hernandez v. Commissioner doesn't deal with taxing Churches themselves, it deals with the question of whether payments made to churches are tax deductible as charitable donations, and ruled they weren't.

You are right that churches can be taxed and that there is a narrow window. That window usually relates to their participation is activities not directly related to or supporting worship or charitable works.

But the reason we don't tax churches is because of the establishment clause of the 1st amendment.

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ColdJay64 t1_j0r7iwd wrote

I found an update from 2019, not sure if this has already been shared by anyone: https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/01/28/scientology-philadelphia-church/

Apparently they lost their tax exemption in 2017 and are one of the city’s biggest real estate delinquents.

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AbsentEmpire t1_j0s4f5l wrote

Sounds like the city should take them to sheriff sale for unpaid taxes.

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nolandeluca t1_j0sk25y wrote

This, yes we just need to wait for them to slip on taxes then the city can take it and finally give the old girl a use. Poor building, just wants some occupants 😢

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Covidicus_Vaximus t1_j0qmvt0 wrote

My church in NE Philly got a huge tax bill for land they claimed we weren’t using. Despite planting trees for a free fruit orchard and plans for a prayer and reflection area. Plus every year we host a live Nativity

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ArnoldShwarmanegger t1_j0qrhf8 wrote

I'm going to start my own religion and claim tax exempt status. All hail the Shawarma.

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nolandeluca t1_j0s18it wrote

Actually this building is "owned" by PMC Church of scientology and the taxes are roughly 44k a year. Which unfortunately they have been paying, this makes it so much harder for the city to take back.

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asforus t1_j0s87g4 wrote

That’s exactly what we should do

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OprahtheHutt t1_j0qlmnj wrote

They bought this in 2007. Shelly Miscavige has been missing since 2007. There are no such things as coincidences.

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Indiana_Jawnz t1_j0s7mwp wrote

You used to be able to just open the front door and walk in a few years ago. It's totally gutted inside and just sitting and rotting; what a waste of prime real estate.

The night the Eagles won the super bowl me and some friends went up to the roof along with some other random people who followed us in the back door from Sansom. It was wild to just see and hear the entire city celebrating from up on the roof.

Anyway, here is what it looks like inside, or at least what it looked like 5 years ago.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/soldat252/albums/72157635090832237/with/52572250259/

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Cameo345 t1_j0ugmjt wrote

Damn, wish you could still get inside, I know some ravers who would love this lol.

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CoolJetta3 t1_j0r0c6e wrote

Still Empty After All These Years - Paul Simon

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Hib3rnian t1_j0r16yh wrote

Suppose to be empty, it's a communication tower for the mother ship for when it returns.

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FGoose t1_j0r9wwo wrote

Not empty. Full of Thetons and like Elrons ghost probably.

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TwilightPrincess25 t1_j0rsgz4 wrote

Oh my goodness... I had a traumatic experience at a Scientology Rehab In Michigan. I went to take a shower without telling anyone, and when I came down the hallway this guy was literally poking at my bed sheets asking if I was ok..OK... He thought Thetons were in my bed.... No joke this happened at The Best Drug Rehab...

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NeverTooManyVans t1_j0raf2a wrote

I'm not familiar with this building, but I did get to tour the Mormon building when it was constructed and open to the public before use started and only Mormons would be allowed past the first floor. (I mean, who's going to pass up a chance like that?)

It was definitely interesting, especially going all the way to the top floor, where things were very ornate as you got "closer to God."

All in all, a once in a lifetime experience, thanks to an old boss who was very keen on showing us the building.

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ReginaldStarfire t1_j0w0c38 wrote

My favorite part of the tour of the Mormon Temple was the mural behind the baptismal font of Joseph Smith crossing the Susquehanna River. I said to the docent, "I didn't know Joseph Smith was active in Pennsylvania!" She reluctantly said, "The murals are personalized for each temple."

Meaning that the Mormon Temple in Paris shows Joseph Smith crossing the Seine, and the temple in Shanghai shows him crossing the Yangtze!

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Squadooch t1_j0u0vz6 wrote

Lots of us did. It was open to the public.

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defusted t1_j0qjg65 wrote

I wonder if I can get in there...

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EnemyOfEloquence t1_j0q56x4 wrote

Wow I literally saw the building permit in the window yesterday and saw it was all in Church of Scientology name and wondered about it

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_VladimirPoutine_ t1_j0rnzfz wrote

Where’s Shelly? Is that where they’re keeping her?

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jmdunkle t1_j0prwwz wrote

That’s what you think

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DVSonanadventure t1_j0qzhlh wrote

To be fair it was empty even when it was occupied.

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[deleted] t1_j0sho9n wrote

[deleted]

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Squadooch t1_j0u0nti wrote

Nope and nope. Dare you to knock! Free personality test!

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nolandeluca t1_j0ry80l wrote

This building is legit blight in CC, I discovered it the first time I went to Mcgillins. They have absolutely no plans to do anything to it, and their religion is just a bundle of tax fraud. If enough of us report it as blight and write to our City councilpersons they will eventually seize it. I'd love to buy it at sheriffs sale and put it back to residential use.

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DespacitOwO2 t1_j0s7ma1 wrote

Because they have tax-free status, it's costs them $0/year to hold real estate assets and do nothing with them. They use real estate holdings to hide their real wealth and not have a bunch of liquid assets sitting around, which would be easier to steal/have seized by the feds.

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asforus t1_j0s7zzx wrote

I doubt it’s empty. I feel like I’ve seen homeless going in there.

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Theresa6868 t1_j0tpxxf wrote

Yeah cause Philly ain't got no time for that yo. Homie don't play that.

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Jerryshaker64 t1_j0tzqa6 wrote

Every town needs a mysterious building like this.

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[deleted] t1_j0rad9x wrote

[removed]

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philadelphia-ModTeam t1_j0reit8 wrote

Rule 7: Your submission was removed for violating the subreddit’s rules against hate speech, bigotry, sexism, and racism.

1

Burdy323 t1_j0q3xgp wrote

I volunteered to do some work on that building for the church to get the movement in this city kickstarted, but they declined. It’s a bummer, wonder what they’re waiting on

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beeps-n-boops t1_j0q5syi wrote

Ewwww. The last thing we need in the city is more wackaloons.

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Burdy323 t1_j0qb2y1 wrote

Meh, I like the church

−51

defusted t1_j0qi64y wrote

It's ok to be wrong... And stupid

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blowjob215 t1_j0r204r wrote

Being wrong is temporary (or can be); being stupid is permanent

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kdeltar t1_j0qjhn0 wrote

I’m truly curious why. Have you read about the founder?

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_PinkPirate t1_j0r54yj wrote

It’s not a church. It’s a cult and clearly you’re totally brainwashed.

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jicket t1_j0qcyqi wrote

Well I guess I can no longer say the Church of Scientology has not done one thing I like

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blowjob215 t1_j0r236g wrote

You like sitting on empty property in bustling urban centers?

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jicket t1_j0r2d1z wrote

Empty is preferable to filled with Scientologists promulgating Scientology

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