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DirtyOldPanties OP t1_iwduuj3 wrote

Reply to comment by ladz in Why Scientific Progress in Ethics Is Frozen by DirtyOldPanties

"In answer to those philosophers who claim that no rela­tion can be established between ultimate ends or values and the facts of reality, let me stress that the fact that living entities exist and function necessitates the existence of val­ues and of an ultimate value which for any given living entity is its own life. Thus the validation of value judgments is to be achieved by reference to the facts of reality. The fact that a living entity is, determines what it ought to do."

From the Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand.

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ladz t1_iwe4hqv wrote

As a counterexample, ants and other highly successful hive insects definitely do not consider self-preservation as an ultimate value as evident in their group-benefitting sacrificial behavior.

I've never heard a good argument Ayn Rand. The position that all selflessness is antisocial comes from garbage capitalist dogma and is empathetically bankrupt.

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[deleted] t1_iwf567u wrote

[deleted]

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Bek t1_iwg9tdx wrote

OP did respond to the quote.

> let me stress that the fact that living entities exist and function necessitates the existence of val­ues and of an ultimate value which for any given living entity is its own life.

Last I checked ants are living entities.

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DirtyOldPanties OP t1_iwe7ou8 wrote

Human beings are not ants or any sort of hive.

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Bek t1_iwg9kxu wrote

Your quote is about living entities, not just humans. Ants and anything else that makes up a hive is a living entity.

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Provokateur t1_iwfcd4q wrote

Haha, I was thinking "Come on, that's just a bad misreading of Aristotle and has been widely refuted for 2,000 years."

Then I saw it was from Ayn Rand (an Aristotelean who never seriously studied philosophy and is best known--in philosophy--for butchering Aristotle and pretty much everyone else she wrote about).

Ya, that checks out.

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