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ladz t1_iwdf8rs wrote

"Science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be, and outside of its domain value, elly judgments of all kinds remain necessary."

― Albert Einstein, The Evolution of Physics: From Early Concepts to Relativity and Quanta

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bumharmony t1_iwfrmsb wrote

It can and it should. It can count all the resources and possibilities and define what is feasible.

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iiioiia t1_iwgxkcb wrote

> It can count all the resources and possibilities...

Science tends to only study physical matters, whereas many possibilities lie in the metaphysical realm.

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bumharmony t1_iwgz48d wrote

So the amount of rsources is not a physical matter question? It is literally the first question of justice.

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iiioiia t1_iwh2l7w wrote

> So the amount of rsources is not a physical matter question?

Only partially - there is certainly physical matters, but there is also metaphysical matters.

An example: your opinions on various matters, and how these opinions affect your behavior, which in turn affects the overall system.

> It is literally the first question of justice.

Can you link to the resource you're referring to here? I'm curious if there is an accompany peer-reviewed scientific proof.

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bumharmony t1_iwheuj2 wrote

W t f are you talking about?

We need to know how much there are resources in order to articulate a pareto efficient distribution of them. What makes you to distort everything that has value and is the easiest part to grasp of the subject matter?

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iiioiia t1_iwhidff wrote

> W t f are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

> Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that studies the fundamental nature of reality, the first principles of being, identity and change, space and time, causality, necessity, and possibility.[1] It includes questions about the nature of consciousness and the relationship between mind and matter, between substance and attribute, and between potentiality and actuality.[2] The word "metaphysics" comes from two Greek words that, together, literally mean "after or behind or among [the study of] the natural". It has been suggested that the term might have been coined by a first century CE editor who assembled various small selections of Aristotle's works into the treatise we now know by the name Metaphysics (μετὰ τὰ φυσικά, meta ta physika, lit. 'after the Physics ', another of Aristotle's works).[3] > > Metaphysics studies questions related to what it is for something to exist and what types of existence there are. Metaphysics seeks to answer, in an abstract and fully general manner, the questions of:[4] > > - What there is > > - What it is like > > Topics of metaphysical investigation include existence, objects and their properties, space and time, cause and effect, and possibility. Metaphysics is considered one of the four main branches of philosophy, along with epistemology, logic, and ethics.[5]

> We need to know how much there are resources in order to articulate a pareto efficient distribution of them.

Best get cracking then! Maybe it's a good idea to take an ontology textbook with you on your journeys.

> What makes you to distort everything that has value and is the easiest part to grasp of the subject matter?

Technically, from a scientific perspective, your mind is what makes "me" "do" that.

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DirtyOldPanties OP t1_iwduuj3 wrote

"In answer to those philosophers who claim that no rela­tion can be established between ultimate ends or values and the facts of reality, let me stress that the fact that living entities exist and function necessitates the existence of val­ues and of an ultimate value which for any given living entity is its own life. Thus the validation of value judgments is to be achieved by reference to the facts of reality. The fact that a living entity is, determines what it ought to do."

From the Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand.

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ladz t1_iwe4hqv wrote

As a counterexample, ants and other highly successful hive insects definitely do not consider self-preservation as an ultimate value as evident in their group-benefitting sacrificial behavior.

I've never heard a good argument Ayn Rand. The position that all selflessness is antisocial comes from garbage capitalist dogma and is empathetically bankrupt.

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[deleted] t1_iwf567u wrote

[deleted]

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Bek t1_iwg9tdx wrote

OP did respond to the quote.

> let me stress that the fact that living entities exist and function necessitates the existence of val­ues and of an ultimate value which for any given living entity is its own life.

Last I checked ants are living entities.

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DirtyOldPanties OP t1_iwe7ou8 wrote

Human beings are not ants or any sort of hive.

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Bek t1_iwg9kxu wrote

Your quote is about living entities, not just humans. Ants and anything else that makes up a hive is a living entity.

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Provokateur t1_iwfcd4q wrote

Haha, I was thinking "Come on, that's just a bad misreading of Aristotle and has been widely refuted for 2,000 years."

Then I saw it was from Ayn Rand (an Aristotelean who never seriously studied philosophy and is best known--in philosophy--for butchering Aristotle and pretty much everyone else she wrote about).

Ya, that checks out.

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